Nick

Where's Moon? I think we still have $9M before we hit the magic $40M+tax threshhold. We have enough room to pick up someone at stretch run. This probably assures us that Hanley will not vest and will be let go after this season. From AAV standpoint, we simply replaced Hanley with JD, and we did it year early. I hope Hanley is pissed off that he goes off this year and force the team to play him little more without getting to 496 at bats.

I suggested it and Kimmi agreed on final amount, 5 years and $110M. We're good, Kimmi.

Yeah, basically Hosmer signed for $100M and 5 years or $20M per year. And he can't lose either way. If he's still productive then he can get out of 3 years at $13M OR if he's a bust, he gets to collect $13M sitting on the bench for 3 years. I'm pretty sure that's what Boras sold Hosmer on.

sometimes it's just good to hear a difference voice.

If we sign JD, HRam can be platooned with Moreland at 1B. Give him few more bats at DH. That way we get some value for paying him $22M. But his 2019 season won't be vested. I serious doubt you'd find any takers that will pay more than $10M of $44M. Get some value in 2018, then save entire $22M in 2019, 50% savings versus 25% savings, and we get 400 at bats for 2018.

Ball's in JD's hand....He can be mad at the world but fair value is what willing buyer and seller comes to terms. He is overestimating his value. Does he really think he'll have more leverage by sitting out a year or settling for a one year deal? Next year's free agent class is loaded and he'll be year older. If I'm Boras, I'd ask for graceful ending with Sox. Beg for few extra millions and be done with it. But he's not getting another year and I only see increase of say $10M over 5 years. That's absolute max. Hell, DD may not want to do that.

Why do we need JD? Does he have leadership quality? How do you know? How many leaders do you need on a team? Can a guy be a leader one season but not the next? Was Pedey ever a leader? Was he a leader when he threw his teammates under the bus? Is he still a leader? Or did we make a mistake that he was a leader when in fact he was not, just pretending to be one? Does Boras ever ask for more money because a guy is a 'proven' leader? Do you take a poll of players and see who is the leader? Is it like God? You can't see it but you know it exists? Is being a good teammate a prerequisite to being a leader? Can you be a leader from day 1? Or do you become a leader after hitting .300 or winning 15 games as a pitcher? Why don't you tell me who the leaders are on this Sox team. I will tell you if we have enough to win the Division.

Maybe instead of wasting $25M on JD we should go look for a "leader".

So you are admitting 'production' > intangibles? You think Ortiz would be loved if he was batting .220? Yes, I do have you. Baseball is a collection of individual talents. Better production beats better leadership. How in the f*** can you refute that?

Laugh all you want......give me statistical leader at every position and I'll beat your leadershipass every time.

in baseball, talent > leadership. We don't share the ball. Every at bat is on you. If I go 4-4 with 4 home runs, I've done pretty much all I can as a hitter. I can be a dick, no one has to like me. I don't need to exhibit leadership skills. My night was perfect. Give me that guy over a leader any day of the week. You guys are getting deep into weeds. Baseball is not complicated.

My apologies. I was thinking we should give him 400 at bats this year and let his contract die.

I apologize if I'm wrong but when do we have to release him? I'm thinking we should give him a platooning opportunity for 2018.

Are you serious? What makes you think another team will want his contract if we don't want it? If he clears waivers, then what are you going to do? Release him? A la Sandoval? Then another team picks him up for league minimum and we're stuck with his 2018 salary and assuming he gets enough at bats, we're stuck with his vesting option for 2019, $22M. I'm not anti Hanley. I'm just looking ahead. Essentially I value Sale and Betts more than I value Hanley. I would like to add JD and/or Machada. Something has to go and I'm proposing Hanley's $22M for 2019, Porcello's $20M for 2019, Kimbrel's FA contract for 2019. It's about choices. I think it's irresponsible to throw out signings, trades, FA acquisition without looking at the total picture. My propsal allows us to pick up Machado, Sale and Betts for $30M, re-sign Pom or someone comparable for $25M. We'll need one young bat to emerge, a #5 starter to emerge and bullpen to be filled on the cheap.

We definitely know the posters who thought "what's the big deal? it's only $13M". We're still boxed in sort of speak from Sandoval contract. I get it that we have more resources than other teams. But without some control, ie luxury threshhold, we'll continue to spend unwisely. We may go over the tax limit, but it better be a good buy. PS. Say what you will about Moreland signing, from where I sit, if it prevents Hanley from gaining vesting rights for 2019 (and $22M), it's a good deal. On surfance his signing brings back entire starting lineup. It's a good place to start. He will give us $6.5M value.

I have Pom at $25M, I have $32M reserved for arb increases. (if Porcello has a great year, then maybe we can keep him. It just means we'll be over $20M above the luxury tax for 2018: we can reset for 2020) There seems to be consensus we shouldn't spend too much on bullpen. Obviously if we start blowing several games, I'd be first to be complaining. I'm not enamored with Kelly to be honest. He throws hard STRAIGHT balls. 2018 we have both E Rod and Porcello 2019 we still have E Rod, Did You Forget about him? I believe Sox have stated their preference is to have full time DH but maybe it can be a shared position, Maybe it should be Pedroia starting as early as 2019. His body is going south fast. Again, if you have Betts and Machado in the lineup along with Beni and Devers, we should be able to score. I'm just not as concerned about our team as others at this point. I would love to have Nunez at right price thought. We can give him enough bats.

Lets' start with $60M in savings. Incremental cost of acquiring Machado for $30M is $20M since we're getting rid of Xander and his arb 3 cost. (est of $12M?) That leaves us $40M from savings realized in getting rid of payroll from Porcello, Hanley, Kimbrel, and Holt. We will need to re-sign Pom or find a comparable replacement. Maybe he'll have a great year and it takes $25M to sign him. He's already making $8.5M so at most, it will cost us additional $17M to sign Pom for $25M. (I'm being very generous). That leaves us with $23M from original savings and $9M we pick up from increase in the luxury tax for 2019, or $32M to cover increases in arbitrations costs. Keep in mind that's keeping our CURRENT AAV payroll of $205M. 2020 fix will be relatively simple, we sign Sale lets say for $30M (just to make it easy). That's $17M more than what he'll be making in 2019. Where do we get THAT money? Sandoval's $18.455M contract will have expired. Bingo. Just to be safe, Moreland's $6.5M will also be coming off our books. Our payroll is still around $205M. Hopefully a young player will have emerged by 2020 to replace Moreland, if not sooner. 2021? Hell Betts maybe making close to $20M by then. Signing him to $30M deal won't be that difficult. We have 2 years left on current CBA. Thus we can finally blow past our luxury tax limit to second penalty phase. $237M and additional 12.5% penalty. I contend luxury threashhold will get a big bump in next CBA. Union got played in this one. If we do what I suggest, we can actually stay below the luxury tax threashhold for 2019 and reset the penalty again for 2020 season. Make sense? Don't let Hanley's contract vest and give away Porcello for $20M. We will have 4 $30M players, Sale, Price, Machado and Betts for 2021 season. If they can't lead us, then we don't deserve to win. f*** JD.

Machado + Wright > Porcello + Xander It's all about choices. Why in the hell would I trade Porcello to sign another $20M pitcher? My topic was on cutting cost. Hanley's vesting option, get rid of it Porcello, looks to me like our #5 pitcher, replace him with Wright or someone else. Kimbrel, wants long term deal, PASS ON HIM AS FA Holt, good riddance, That saves us $60M so we can add an impact bat for 2019 (Machado?). IT'S ABOUT CHOICES, MOON. YOU CAN'T HAVE IT ALL. THERE IS A BUDGET SOMEWHERE.

This..... We now live in a country where $25M is disrespect.

so bottom line, going rate for Porcello's performance last year is $20M? good to know.

got to cut cost somewhere. Yep, it would be great to keep everyone and sign JD this winter, throw in Nunez, then sign Machado next year. But that's unrealistic. You have to make choices. Do you extend Pom and keep Porcello if he has a trade value? Aren't you the one advocating for using young players? Why not go with Wright if he's healthy? He eats up innings as well as the next guy. His ERA can't be any worse than Porcello's.

I'm good with that...Xander's making $7M and he'll probably go up to $12M for 2019. So it's just a matter of coming up with $18M. Porcello's $20M should cover it. Machado + Wright > Xander + Porcello

Replace him with Wright.....We have no business paying our #5 starter $20M. Look, it's a game of give and take. If you boss tells you to cut cost, where would you cut it?

wow....thanks (maybe the real problem is too many players are handled by just one agent, in essence Boras controls the market)

Goal for 2018 without JD Get into the playoffs with healthy starting rotation....I'll take my chances with Sale, Price, Pom and Porcello/E Rod Get out of Hanley contract for 2019....save $22M Find a replacement for Kimbrel for 2019 (Carson Smith?)....save $13M Trade and find a replacement for Porcello for 2019 (Wright?)....save $20M Find a replacement for J Kelly for 2019....save $3.8M that's total savings of $58.8M, get rid of Holt and we're close to $61M. Immediate action will be to sign Pomeranz. He's already making $8.5M, luxury tax limit goes up by $9M. So from my perspective we already have slotted $17.5M for Pom. Assuming we sign Pom or someone comparable for $20-22M, I think we can still compete and get into the playoffs in 2019. Yeah some of that $60M in savings will be eaten up by higher arbitration numbers, but we still should have enough to sign one impact bat for 2020 or save money for Sale for 2020. I'll go out on the limb and anoint Michael Chavis as a starter for 2019, savings some money.