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It's even simpler than that. Most of them are represented by Boras, who NEVER moves quickly...

We'll get excited once the off-season starts...

A lot of times that's because they only get a handful of save opportunities before the manager tries so.eone else. If the team is dping well, no one wants to risk it while the new guy learns the job...

Seventh or eighth, depending on how many on and who is up. A ot of factors van be involved. But really, it's the inning that makes you sweat as a fan. THAT is what he should be for. Saving him for the ninth is silly sometimes. 44% of all ninth innings are lead of by the 6-9 hitters. Are those really going to be tough innings? I think the only time Kimbrel should try to protect a 3 run lead against the botom of the order should be if he hasn't pitched in 4 days...

No. I'd agree that's why they like it. This is the job, after all. Rolaids Relief Award (remember that?) used to track what they called "Tough Saves", which were saves when the closer came in with the tying run on base. Usually the league leader had like 4. I think the single season record was 8.

It's also the entire crux of the argument about why closers are overrated (as a role). You pointed out the Sox were 22-19 in one run games. As I am getting hypothetical and no there is no real answer, what do you think their record would have been if Kimbrel pitched in the 7th or 8th innings if the game was on the line then? I'm talking about games where the set up guys and other relievers put the Sox behind by a run.

I think the Sox sign Santana, possibly next week. I think they will still revisit signing JD Martinez in late January when Boras is still trying to wring that last drop of blood from any GM he can...

Oh it won't happen. If healthy Chen would be a terrific closer. But his elbow issues coupled with a massive contract make him a crazy gamble. Plus he has an option year that relies on IP. He probably prefers to start. Colon is another gamble too. He's like 46 years old and any season now, his velocity will drop to batting practice levels. But a pitcher with his control, command, and the ability to get batters to miss would work quite well in the role. I only named those two because they are the right type of pitchers. But someone healthier and younger would be more ideal...

And teams are trying to work against that as well. Last year the Nationals tried to avoid using Kodak Glover as the closer because they wanted to avoid paying him more in arbitration. No one liked this idea except all the hitters who teed off on Blake Treinen. The Phillies similarly kept their best reliever out of the closer role as well. But my issues are not about the economics of the closer. When lefty specialists are getting $6mill, Kimbrel's paycheck isn't a concern. But the turnkey style of bullpen management rampant throughout the league is. I'd rather see Kimbrel in the same role as Andrew Miller is in Cleveland - coming in when the game is truly on the line. Saving him for the ninth inning while you hope everything before that works out is a massive waste of his talents....

I think the role of closer is overrated because it causes many managers to misuse their best reliever. I can't tell you how many times I've seen a game where a manager uses another reliever in a very tough situation, only to save his closer ( aka best reliever) to face lesser hitters in the ninth inning, and with no one on base. I even made posts a few times this year expressing anger with Farrell over these exact situations. There is no point in even having a closer as good as Kimbrel if he sits on the bench in the eighth inning while someone else faces the 4-5-6 hitters, just so Kimbrel can come in in the ninth and face the bottom of the order. But hey, he gets the all-important save. Assuming there was still a lead to protect. And certainly MLB people do agree with analytics, like it or not. Bill James certainly did, since he wrote a lot of them. Former GM Jim Bowden uses them in discussions on MLB Radio Network. Gabe Kapler was shocked at how prevalent they were durong his managerial interviews (for minor league jobs, no less).They are more widespread than you realize.

By what measure are you ranking these closers? I know it isn't fWAR and it certainly isn't (and shouldn't be) saves...

Anything to support this belief?

So maybe it's time to sell high? Kimbrel tied his career best in fWAR last year. But fWAR emphasizes my belief that fans overvalue the role of closer, since the stat basically says Mariano Rivera had a very similar career to Gary Gaetti. I do think there are other options at closer, some on the team and some others. One available pitcher who would make a very good closer is Wei-Yin Chen. But there are elbow concerns there. Bartolo Colon probably would as well, but who really knows if he wants to. (He probably should at this point in his career. ) But I would be extremely surprised if the Sox dealt Kimbrel.

I can't believe they tendered Holt at all...

JDs agent is Boras. He is going to wait it out. I do agree the Sox will want some sort of splash before tickets go on sale...

In theory, Bradley should be worth more thsn Abreu in a trade. But that doesn't mean Rick Hahn reads those theories....

Too bad he can't use it to hit a baseball. Matt Adams is Carlos Santana at the plate, but without discipline and contact....

The White Sox want prospects, and good ones. St. Louis looks like a perfect fit...

I've been one of the loudest voices saying that. However there are also immediate ramifications of this weak farm that bother me more...

So a third place team is ok? What about a fourth place team?

I was never much of a fan of DD but I absolutely wouldn't fire him now. No one has said its unavoidable and no one has said this is the end. But the mention of the weak farm and that everyone but the elderly will be gone in 3:years seems to anger many. I have said REPEATEDLY there is a lot of time. But that doesn't mean the farm system will fix itself. And we will definitely need it before 2021, which is the much bigger deal. In fact its one big factor keeping the Sox out of the running for Stanton as we speak...

And that's it. And both clocks are ticking. Really if you look at 2021 the Sox have thosre two, along with Vazquez, under control. But also Price making $31mill at 35. Pedroia for one more year. Whoever they sign this off-season. And right now no real trade bait like Moncada, Ko pech, Espinoza, Margot, etc. to fill any holes. Like I said, a lot can happen. Personally I think the Sox weak farm is a bigger issue NOW and will be again on July 31...

Wrong on all counts. No one is saying its all doom and gloom and Dombrowski needs to be fired. And the majority of posters on here DO live in worlds of hindsight. And those who see the farm is at its weakest since Steve Lomasney was the top prospect merely point out this status. It seems like some of the folks who think the farm system is fine want to take personal offense whrn they get reminded it isn't. I've been saying all along yes, its coming but there is plenty of time. Its odd how so many find even that obvious thought repugnant and then get the public lambasted from people who, while they repeatedly say they don't want to offend anyone, have no problem trying to make their point with condescension and insulting commentary. Simple question - while no one can predict the future, how many members of the 2017 team will be around in 2020? Just a guess. It won't be ve.ry many, but that's the case for all 30 teams. (Only 9 players played for the 2014 Red Sox played for the 2017 Red Sox. The thing is, even in 2014 we had some idea who was coming in the future. We knew Betts. We saw Bogaerts and Bradley. Who from 2017 gave you a look into the future?

"Win now" is the optimistic side of the same coin...

There isn't. But how much of that is salary and years of control?