Jack Flap

We're very well set for the next 2-3 years, after which we'll have a thousand and one question marks - primarily dealing with what the pitching staff will look like after several key pieces hit free agency within a year or two of each other, and whether the young core can be extended. This was always going to be the case. Our long term outlook may be a bit thinner than it was before Dombrowski's moves, but I didn't think having guys like Moncada, Espinoza, Kopech, etc. made us anything close to "set for the next 10 years." No one that we've lost was/is anything resembling a sure thing.

Give me the most talented roster to get through the regular season with, and whatever will be will be in October. The Schillings and Papis who are consistent studs in the postseason over the course of a career are the exception rather than the rule.

Agree on both counts.

Not to nitpick, but the pomeranian has pitched 59 career games in relief with a 2.10 ERA and WHIP under 1.00. Much as it would gall me to see him in the bullpen because of the price we paid to acquire him, I also have to admit there's pretty good reason to think he could be an asset there.

At this point his getting 4 years isn't a sure thing by any means. Would it change your opinion at all if he'd accept, say, a 2-year deal? I'm not advocating for it necessarily, but we are in a slightly different situation than we were before the Sale trade (no longer have to worry about fitting Moncada in, and the only bat that's close and would conceivably be "blocked" is Sam Travis). The luxury tax and 1st round pick remain points in the "against" column, of course.

Just to respond to this and the other posts saying we have nothing to worry about offensively...we probably don't. All I'm saying is this... The success of our offense will depend heavily upon -Hanley being an offensive force once again. -Pablo being a major league baseball player. -Leon continuing to be adequate offensively and/or Swihart or Vazquez taking a big step forward. -Bogaerts, Bradley, Betts repeating last year's success. -Benintendi becoming a key contributor. None of these are outlandish things to expect, and all of them could come to fruition for all we know. If we get best-case scenarios across the board, this will again be an extremely good lineup -- but I guess after 2014 and 2015 I'm not as comfortable counting on that. We've seen before how a team built around young players and questionable veterans can quickly find itself in trouble; the young guys will be under a lot more pressure to be big run producers than they did before, and our depth beyond the starting nine is unimpressive at best. Having an all but guaranteed 30 HR, .900 OPS bat in the lineup is a big bulwark against other things going wrong, and I do think we'll miss Ortiz's reliable presence more than we might think. A one-year signing of Beltran (or a Bautista pillow contract) would have added a bit of thump without hamstringing us for the future, but it is what it is. Again, I'm not worried per se, and in all likelihood this will indeed be a very good offense once again. It's just that if this is going to be a team going "all-in" for a ring over the next couple of years, I'd have preferred to add something more potent than Mitch Moreland to compensate for the loss of one of the most feared sluggers in the game.

God, 2012 was depressing. I tried to read some of these old comments and just couldn't even go there.

You dirty two-timer.

Other teams are aware of Buch's history...they know he can be relied upon for a half-season of effective pitching per year at most, and that at age 32 he's unlikely to be any more consistent or stay healthier than he has in the past. I think we can get something back, but my expectations are low.

True. To be clear, I don't see it happening, I just wish we'd added a bit more offense than we have. Moreland will be serviceable, but I still think the loss of Papi will make more of a dent than people seem to believe.

I think it's a "bird in the hand is worth two in the bush" type of thing. Sure, we'll be able to add more warm bodies to the farm system in short order, but whether any of them will ever come close to Moncada/Kopech/Espinoza/etc. stature is not something that can be counted on. A couple of weak drafts in a row (see 2012/2013) could easily set us back even further. That's not to say I'm panicking, of course. The major league roster is quite young and should have no real holes for the next 2-3 seasons, so we'll have some time to replenish. I don't know if I saw this suggested here or somewhere else, but if Dave's aggressive style translates into the draft and international prospect signings, that may help us restock on high-end talent quicker than normal. I like what he did by taking a chance on Groome this summer when other teams were shying away.

I'm game if they can make the money work out. I care less about the 1st round pick than I might have a few weeks ago...the farm is going to be s*** for a while anyway, so we might as well make it worthwhile by going all-in for a ring.

Definitely not using that one on my wife.

Good post. I for one will miss those two as well...lots of great memories, particularly from 2013. Koji is now close to signing with the Cubs apparently...I'd been hoping we'd be able to find a few $ to bring him back, as beyond Kimbrel and Thornburg our rotation still contains quite a lot of 'ifs' and 'maybes.' (Kelly, Hembree, Barnes, etc.) Too bad.

We'll probably trade Clay for spare parts only to see him put up 30 starts of 2.75 ERA and win the Cy Young...just because.

Now we all have to say something.

He's had fairly sustained runs of success in 2015 and 2016...after being recalled in July this year he put up a 3.24 ERA, 1.13 WHIP, 3.48 FIP, 9.15 K/9, and 3.24 BB/9 over 14 starts. I'm more inclined to believe that the spring training injury (and his mechanics subsequently being out of whack, if I recall correctly) messed him up for the better part of the first half and his second half performance is more representative of the pitcher he's capable of being. We'll see.

He's a keeper in mine as well...I think his trade value is probably tremendous, but we'd be smart to keep him for all the same reasons. Was just thinking out loud (sort of) here. I agree that Buchholz or Pomeranz will probably be the one to go.

Realistically, E-Rod is the last guy we should be looking to trade: as a young starter with top-of-the-rotation type upside with 5 years of control, he's exactly what we'd be coveting if he was on another team. However, seeing the cost of pitching right now, I can't help but find myself wondering what sort of return he could bring. If it could land us a young corner bat with similar upside and control, it would have to warrant some consideration, right?

I just saw this and it did bring a smile to my face. lol.

True, but I think you have to consider the trades that weren't made alongside the ones that were. Lots of people wanted to trade Lester and possibly Ellsbury for Johan Santana once upon a time, and we know how that would have worked out. Bogaerts for Cliff Lee was a hot rumor in 2013 (right before Lee dropped off a cliff). Quite a few fans would have traded Betts and run Bradley out of town long ago if given the opportunity. We'd have a lot more regrets right now if we'd traded off young talent as carelessly as some advocate for. We'll be able to judge in a few years whether the loss of Moncada, Epinoza, Kopech, Margot, and others was worth it.

Everyone will have to get used to the fact that we won't be getting much out of the farm for a few years, which is simply the price of all of these trades. I expect Travis will be in the 1B conversation at some point this year, and we could see Devers some time in 2018-19. Maybe Owens or Johnson figures it out now that we've basically lowered our expectations to nil. Other than that, it looks bleak...but again, having the major league team basically set for the next 2-3 years makes that a lot easier to stomach. I've quibbled with some of Dombrowski's deals, but I'm content to sit back and see what happens now. As others have pointed out, this team has a very well-defined window to win before a lot of decisions have to be made around 2019 or so. What happens during that time will determine how we ultimately look back on these moves.

So they basically did what the Red Sox should have with Miller: trade him for a nice haul, then sign him right back in the offseason.

Yeah, um...anyway. The White Sox apparently pushed for Devers as the third piece, but the Red Sox compromised by giving them Basabe and Diaz instead. That almost makes me like this deal even more...well done, Dave. http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/12/al-notes-holliday-chapman-royals-sox.html

I certainly get where you're coming from, but Moncada and Kopech are pretty high-risk prospects themselves (see contact/strikeout issues for the former and walk rate, questionable third pitch for the latter), and Basabe even more so (a high-upside but low-floor type by all accounts and probably a number of years away). Diaz is a pure relief prospect. We gave up quite a bit, but got an elite pitcher in his prime on a great contract in return -- easily justifiable in my opinion, though I certainly respect anyone who disagrees.