moonslav59

I'm not sure ERod was is "homegrown," but those 3 do rival, if not beat out, Bello, Crawford and Houck. ERod pitched 37 innings w POR and 48 w PAW, before his call-up. If you count him, then we can safely say we have the best 3-5 homegrown pitchers (now counting Whitlock & Winck, if ERod counts) in 7-8 years. Again, I'm not bragging on the greatness of these guys, but it is noteworthy that as bad as our fram looks, now, it did just produce the best we've seen in 8 years or so. If you don't count ERod, Wink & Whitlock, we might be able to say 10+ years.

Maybe, I should have said not great... or not as good as 2022... OPS+ 102>95 wRC+ 102>96 BWAR 4.9>3.8 is still good. fWAR 3.4>2.8 DRS 16>7 (despite 170 more innings)

Is he better than DHam?

He was not all the great, in 2023.

I'm not trying to credit or blame the GMs. I think you are reading that into my statement. I'm just saying, as bad as our farm looks for pitchers, we did just see the best 3 pitcher combination join the team in over 10 year. It's still not enough, but I do think it's true. Forget the GM part, although I do think it's notable. Name the last time a better 3 homegrown pitcher combo was called up within a 2-3 year period than Bello, Crawford and Houck. Bloom's guys, Wink & Whitlock are not technically fully homegrown products. If you count them and make a group of 5, who graduated in the last 3 years, it's been a while, right?

Yes, indeed, but the 3 from his time are better than any 3 from Ben or Bloom, for whatever reason- luck or otherwise. I'm not sure how far you have to go back into Theo's era to get to 3 better... maybe 2008 (Buch, Masterson & Bowden?) or for sure 2006 (Lester, Papelbon, Buch.)

Certainly, the GM was better, but their farm was the bigger difference, to me. We got Houck & Dalbec, and more recently Bello, Casas and Crawford. They got 6+ SP'ers, Tucker, Pena, and a few others.

The Red Sox agreed to a minor league contract with infielder/outfielder Dalton Guthrie.

Having Tucker for Springer, Pena for Correa and a bunch of home grown SP'ers to step in was more important than the GM, IMO.

No Beni comps? Y Gurriel? Reddick? Kimbrell- Osuna? You gotta admit, it's a pretty close comp, and one team survived the losses: the other did not.

That was insane. The one year, we get two decent comp picks, we mess it up.

I think BTV grossly under values Javier and Garcia. I'm not sure HOU does this for just one of them. I'm also not sure they would kick in $10M, let alone $25M, but I'd love this deal for the Sox. If we did this, we'd probably trade Jansen.

If you are going to include Beni and Porcello, who basically retired, then I'll add Beltran, McAnn and several others.

Good to see you around, Dewey. I have zero confidence we make another big move. I have very little confidence we can have a confluence of things going right in 2024 and see any kind of postseason glory. It's more wishful thinking than even hope, on my part.

Yes, I get that, but this guy did start 21 games in the sample period I provided, and that xFIP was pretty good for RP'ers, too, especially a bulk innings RP'er. I'm not saying I wanted him at $7M. We paid Wacha that. We paid Hill+ Strahm close to that.

That is likely, but with trades, sometimes there are a few moving parts going on, and once something is worked out, a deal comes together. Some feeler went out. Some frameworks were likely established. It could be that Brez is waiting to see if the price drops on Monty or Clevinger, before making a trade already agreed upon. It could be another team is involved in a trade talk with a team, but they are waiting on Snell or Monty, first. If they sign one, they pull out of the trade and that guy goes to the Sox, instead. Time is running out, and it seems less and less likely a big deal gets done with each passing day. I'm pretty sure the SFG will be signing 1-2 of the big 4 remaining- Snell, Monty, Carpenter & Bellinger. The Yanks may swoop in on the other pitcher. I'm not sure who else is in the mix.

Bloom was handed a mess, despite having a solid core of 5-6 players, of which one (2, if you count Price) was immediately traded, and 2 others missed the 2020 season.

I think any deal with Duran, not including Mayer, Teel, Anthony, Bleis or Rafaela would have to include Houck, Whitlock or Crawford plus Wikelman or Perales. I'm not even sure how good of a SP'er we can get with these 3 players.

Teams may be waiting on Monty and Snell to sign, before a certain SP gets traded.

It seems to me, the Astros have let more bid name players walk than the Sox, over the past 5-7 years. The always seem to have someone ready to step in, and they spend moderately to add, where needed most. They do not always hit on their signings, either. Most of their strength has come up through their system. They even had 5 homegrown starters in their rotation, a few times, here and there. Here is a partial list of players not extended or re-signed since 2017: George Springer (.852 OPS w HOU, including .953 his last 2 yrs, plus PO heroics) Dallas Keuchel (Cy Young winner and 3.66 ERA w HOU) Charlie Morton (3.36 ERA w HOU) Gerritt Cole (2.68 ERA w HOU and top 5 in CY voting, both years) Carlos Correa (.837 OPS w HOU & .860 PO OPS) Zack Greinke (3.89 w HOU, but was 37 y/o.) Justin Verlander (2 Cy Awards and a 2nd place finish in 4 years, plus PO heroics)

Shocking to the Post, but trading Duran is a well discussed topic on this site. It could make some sense with all the Tommy Pham talk, or Soler. I came to like Duran, last year, but I don't want him as our CF'er. I also think there is a significant chance he struggles, again. There is also a chance that the 2023 Duran is the real deal. Tough call, but if we get a solid SP'er for him, I'm fine.

I understand more than double the IP has way more value, and the 2.0 fWAR reflects that. He did pitch pretty well, though, and I do think xFIP comps can show how well he pitched, despite fewer innings. Also, I'm not a huge xFIP guy, and this is one example why.

Yes, but he could take Houck's slot in the pen.

Junis was a possible Plan C signing. He signed with MIL for $7M/1. He's been used mostly in relief, but did start 21 games since 2022. '22-'23 198 IP 3.69 FIP 4.18 ERA 1.29 WHIP Only a 2.0 fWAR His 3.67 xFIP since 2022 is better than Monty, Nate, Cease and others.

It would be nice for some pitcher in our system to just appear "out of nowhere," but I can't even see hardly any very far away pitchers with top of rotation promise. I know it's too early on many of the real young ones, but it really looks barren. For all the grief DD got for "emptying the farm" or "trading everyone away," one can view the group of young pitchers on the MLB staff, already as the best group of 3-4 homegrown pitchers we've seen in perhaps a decade. Bello Crawford Houck (somewhat hopefuls: Murphy & Walter) Bloom did okay adding a few to the big club, but hardly any decent pitching prospects. Winckowski Whitlock Schreiber (no so young, anymore) (somewhat hopeful) Kelly Our top prospects by soxprospects.com rankings: 7. Perales- DD 9. Wikelman- DD 11. Fitts- Brez 20. Monegro- Bloom (Wow, that's the best he left for Brez!) 23. Dobbins- Bloom 24. Slated- Brez 25. E R-C- Bloom 26. Guerreo- Bloom 27. Bastardo- DD 28. Mata- DD 29. Hoppe- Bloom 32. Walter- DD 33. Troye, 34 Rogers, 36 Gambrell, 39 Paez, 45 I Coffey, 49 J Riemer- Bloom 56. E Soto, 57 C Early, 60. H M ullins. 38. Penrod, 47 F Cepeda, 48. R Sena, 53 Zeferjahn, 55 CJ Liu- DD 50. H Olivarez, 58 N Judice