moonslav59

Somebody do the math: if we are subtracting Sale's 2 starts, why not subtract Wright's and Porcello's one bad start each and show the new numbers? Our rotation is going to be fine.

His biggest issue is BBs. Even with this nice start, he has 6 BB in 11IP. Until he deals with that issue, he'll remain off my radar.

We've heard talk of an impending cliff the club is heading towards after the 2019 or 2020 season. Here's an optimistic view of what might be to come: Players lost to free agency (and hopeful in-system replacements)- w/luxury tax budget number lost: After 2017: Young $6.5M> Blake Swihart (3rd catcher/5th OF'er/DH) Moreland $5.5M> Travis Shaw (1B) Abad> Several options: Taylor, Scott, Workman, N Ramirez +++ After 2018: Kimbrel $13M> Thornburg, Smith or someone else steps up Pomeranz $Arb > Groome J Kelly $Arb > Several options R Ross $Arb > several options Let's assume the salaries lost cover arb raises over these two years, and we don't have to replace anyone with a costly free agent, especially Kimbrel & Pomeranz. Maybe big "ifs", but let's go with it. After 2019: Ramirez $22M > Dalbec/Hernandez Porcello $20.6M Sandoval $19M (including $5M buyout) > Devers Chris Sale $13.5M X Bogaerts $Arb Thornburg $Arb B Holt $Arb Rutledge $Arb Maybe the loss of HanRam and Pablo can pay for the extensions of Sale & Bogaerts, but Porcello probably has to go due to hefty arb raises being paid out at this time. Let's assume all we lose is Porcello. This could be the 2020 roster framework: $31M Price $31M Sale $25M Bogey $14M Pedroia $18M 3rd of 3 Arb Betts $15M 4/4 Arb JBJ $10M 3/4 Arb ERod $8M 3/3 Arb Wright This is about $150M for just 8 players. Others still under team control: Smith 3/3, Barnes 2/3, Leon 4/4, Vaz 3/3, Hembree 2/3, Elias 3/4 Beni, Swihart, Hernandez, Scott, Workman, Johnson, Owens, Selsky, Taylor, NRamirez, Martin, Marrero, Ysla Rotation: C Sale, Price, ERod, Wright Groome Bullpen: Smith, Barnes, Taylor, Workman, Johnson, Owens, Lakins/Cosart 1) Beni LF 2) Bogey SS 3) Betts RF 4) Devers 3B 5) JBJ CF 6) Pedey 2B 7) Travis 1B 8) Dalbec DH 9) Swihart/Vaz/Leon C Bench: Hernandez, Chatham/Longhi/Ockimey/Marrero/Matheny I'm not sure this is a "cliff", but it probably needs some work. Plus, it needs Devers, Travis and Groome to all come through.

He already is part of the current great team. I love the trade...always have. I've been begging for a trade like this for years.

I'm guessing Abad goes when Thornburg joins the club, if not, when C Smith does, unless we have more pen issues.

We're not going to cut Pablo, and the odds are he'll be with us next year. Pablo would "solve" the problem of Moreland leaving (1B or DH vs RHPs). We could use HanRam-Travis-Pablo at 1B while one DHs. vs RHPs: 1B: Pablo DH: HanRaam vs LHPs: 1B: Travis DH: HanRam Devers or Hernandez or both would have to be good enough to play 3B for this to happen. That could be a big if for 2018.

Many of our great players came in trades involving highly touted pitching prospects. Schilling, Beckett, AGon and many many more.

To me it would be close.

The guy should never start vs a lefty again at all cost. With Moreland only on a one year deal, why not think about moving Panda to 1B/DH, especially if Hernandez or Devers prove they are deserving a FT job? I know we have Travis for 1B, but what if Devers or Hernandez look much better? We have to find ways to fill departing players' roles within the system.

That's like saying the Yankees are my second favorite team.

They wouldn't have had to win a ring for Ben to save his job... maybe.

I don't disagree, but just imagine if Hanram and Porcello had their 2016 seasons in 2015, and Pablo didn't bloat into a blimp? We might not have won a ring (or even made the WS or playoffs), but Ben might still be here.

Buch Showalter....probably kicks himself thinking about E Rod pitching several years for Sox, a kid he drafted. ERod was drafted two days after Buck was signed to manage the O's. I doubt he had much, if anything, to do with the pick. I'm sure he'd want him back though.

Not bad at all. These forums do tend to bring out more of what we think was done wrongly, but most of us Sox fans, especially the longer term ones, are tickled pink Henry took over this club and brought us 3 rings.

The pen has been great so far, but I still think the pen will prove to be not weak but our weakest link.

Preaching to the choir.

Yes, probably enough.

To me, it's the whole Abad is out of options thing. I still wish we'd have just cut him loose or traded him. Maybe when Thornburg comes back...

True, but when I watched the play, it looked like it might be caught. He probably could have been 2-3 steps off 2nd base and still tagged up, if he caught it.

It was a tough hit to know it was not going to be caught. I'm not sure he deserves much or any blame.

It was nice to see ERod settle down. 66 pitches in his last 4.1 IP was not bad. The last run allowed was unearned. Big hits by Marco & Bogey, too. Finally, some big walks taken helped as well. Nice win!

True enough, especially good young Sox pitchers who seemingly never pan out.

I get your point, but every great pitcher was a promising teenager at some point. Not many pitchers have been ranked so highly at his age. Yes, that still makes his value highly speculative, but there's a reason he is ranked so highly. Experts think he has such a high ceiling that the risk-reward is not a hindrance enough to drop him in their rankings. He may turn out to be a dud. The risk of that is certainly high enough to see why getting 2.5 seasons and 3 playoff cycles from a possible #2-3 type starter was worth it. The idea is logical. I guess I still have a gambling instinct in my soul. Espi's ceiling is just too tantalizing for me to want to part with for anything short of a guy like Sale or Quintana (not that I think we could have gotten either in a straight up deal).

You just can't say no to an opportunity like this.

Price....There was simply not much available as far as top of the line pitching was concerned. Again, it was something DD had to do. Did we overpay? Perhaps but not knowing what the going price was DD was not going to take any chances and get beaten out by another offer. It's unfortunate $31M per year sticks out like a sore thumb but it is what it is. No chance we win the division without him last year. Can we have it done cheaper? Perhaps but it's all Monday am quarterbacking to me. There was other top starters avaiable, like Cueto, but although I felt like we grossly overpaid to get him, he was the best we could hope for at that time of great starter need. Kimbrel....this one hurts but it was our inability to have a healthy closer at the time that forced DD to make this move. Not only did it take Kimbrel, but we also had to trade for Ziegler and convert Kelly in a relief role to accomplish what we did. With emergence of some arms in the pen, it's pretty certain we will not resign him after 2018. As Moon said, was it worth paying FA price AND prospects for his 3 years of service? I'd say yes only if we win the world series. BUT again, this was a move DD thought he had to make in order for us to become a contender for 2016. He was right, even though we may have overpaid. I totally understand why the move was made, but that's not enough for me to agree with it. I don't "blame" DD for making the move, because I try to avoid the blame game as much as possible, but I guess some could argue over the semantics of my position. While there were no other top closers available at that time, getting a top closer was not an essential priority, in my opinion. We could have obtained two or three good closers for the same money but with less prospects given up. Those prospects could have been saved or used as part of a bigger package to land us someone better than Pomeranz- see below. Again, I viewed Kimbrel as a top 3 closer and expected top 5 closer from him for all 3 years. The fact that he has slipped from top 5 status makes the trade look worse in hindsight besides the fact that good RP'ers market value has sky-rocketed since the trade. I'm hopeful he can regain his earlier form. Pomeranz....again, inconsistencies from Kelly, E Rod and Clay B forced this trade. I still think it was the correct move. The possibility exists for Espinoza to become a stud pitcher and Pomeranz to be mediocre pitcher for 2 1/2 years of service. Did we overpay? Probably. But DD was not going to sit idle and watch the team implode. As it turned out, Pom did not help the Sox but again that's after the fact. While true, some of us disliked the deal when it was made, so it is not "hindsight" in my case anyways. I do think we needed a starter, but maybe a 2 month rental would have been enough.Maybe we could have tried to go larger and trade for Sale or Quintana last summer, but who knows if the CWS were open to the idea back then. I think we may have gotten Sale & Quintana for probably less than Moncada, Espi, Kopech, Margot, Allen, Guerra, Asuaje, Basabe and V Diaz. Now, that's hindsight and speculative hindsight at that!