moonslav59

Any big trade would likely have cost us Devers (with Nunez playing 3B to end the season). I think DD kept Devers, because he is part of the 3 year window. He was an unblocked ML ready prospect, unlike most of the other prospects traded away.

If all the seats were filled with quality players, we would not have finished DEAD FREAKIN' LAST three out of four years. All of you doomsdayers conveniently IGNORE that fact. We don't "ignore it". We lived with the anguish along with the "pink glassess" of the future crowd. We had some high quality players on those teams. We finished in last place in 2012 with a staff Ben is bashed for disassembling (rightfully so, I might add). We saw HRam and Porcello suck in 2015's last place finish and then win the Cy Young and bat very well in DD's 2016 season. Same talent- different results. I know many of you felt we sucked those years. Kudos to you. The vast majority of baseball people did not expect those rosters to finish in last place 3 out of 4 years. DD is one for one and has chance to go two for two. He's made bold moves. He's oh for 1 in WS rings and far from being a favorite to win this year. DD has filled the bus with true ace in Sale. DD was smart enough to keep Devers and trade away Moncada. Not both as requested by the White Sox. I loved the Chris Freakin' Sale deal. I love our team right now. I think we'll have a good shot to win a ring in the next 3-4 years. This thread is about years 4-7 or so. Nobody id doubting how well DD built up for the 3-4 year window, except for maybe the Shaw deal. Kimbrel will have good three years on the bus as it cruises. The one that got off the bus is in the body shop. You mean Espi? That was the Pom trade. Margot is 15 for his last 35 with 2 HRs. I'm good with DD driving the bus. I'm okay with going for rings in a 3-4 year window. It's better than a 1-2 year window. However, I'm not in denial that the moves he has made won't affect our long term future adversely. The deals he made, IMO, will hurt us down the road. I could be wrong. I hope I'm wrong. Nobody knows anything for sure about 2020 and beyond, but our odds of being highly competitive beyond 2020 are less than if we still had Margot, Moncada (don't judge him too early), Kopech, Espi, Dubon and several more. Maybe it won't be a cliff. I hope the hell not, but the system has made it much harder than before, and we haven't really do to well in replenishing the farm when we had picks in the mid 20's and better access to international FAs. It's not impossible to rebuild while winning, but to deny the extreme difficulty and pretend everything will likely be just fine or to just claim that Henry will just totally change his MO and suddenly become the next George Steinbrenner, to me, is more likely a greater mistake than those of us predicting a probable upcoming cliff.

It helped having the 2nd overall pick in 2013 (Kris Bryant). Maybe we can find the next Bryant with a 25th pick. Maybe not.

Some interesting factoids on our most recent 5 game stretch: 39 runs scored 7 HRs in 5 games. 18 2Bs and 1 3B 21 BBs + 3 HBP + 2 reaches on dropped third strikes. Our two best OPS guys are not Nunez or Devers. Our two best OPS guys are our catchers! 3.000 Leon (granted, he's 1 for 1) 1.524 Vazquez (12 for 21 with a huge HR) A week ago, who would of thought our OPS leaders would be these 6 players? 3.000 Leon 1.524 Vaz 1.415 Devers 1.355 Nunez 1.292 Holt 1.041 Moreland (While this doea show the silliness of small sample sizes, I still think it's kind of amazing.) Who is slumping? .338 JBJ .500 Young (0-1) .623 Bogey .675 HRam Mid land or better: .883 Beni .755 Betts

I wouldn't. He's 5-11, no just kidding, but the guy has only been over .800 twice in his last 6 seasons. 34 HRs were nice last year, but he's only been over 20 twice in his last 6 years. He'd be an upgrade, but my guess is, he's looking for a long term deal. He turns 32 in April.

Maybe Bogey doesn't need a full 10 days off, but I think 2 or 3 in a row would do him wonders, followed by another day off every 5-7 days for maybe 20 days or so. We'll need him strong for the playoffs.

He's a minor league free agent this winter, unless we add him to the 40 man roster. He may not need to "be released". (So is Barfield.) This from soxprospects.com The following players will become minor league free agents in November 2017 unless they are added to the 40-man roster or re-signed. Jeremy Barfield, Brian Bogusevic, Bryce Brentz, Dan Butler, Ryan Court, Jacob Dahlstrand, Matt Dominguez, Shawn Haviland, Williams Jerez, Kyle Kendrick, Deiner Lopez, Heiker Meneses, Edgar Olmos, Mike Olt, Mitchell Osnowitz, Tim Roberson, Jose Sermo, Aneury Tavarez, Herny Urrutia, Elih Villaneuva, Marcus Walden, Jordan Weems Then, we have rule 5... The following players will be eligible for the December 2017 Rule 5 Draft if they are not added to the 40-man roster by November 20, 2017: Victor Acosta, Yoan Aybar, Trey Ball, Jalen Beeks, Danny Bethea, Jordan Betts, Ty Buttrey, Rusney Castillo, Harrison Cooney, Jake Cosart, Enmanuel De Jesus, Jhonathan Diaz, Willis Figueroa, Pat Goetze, Daniel Gonzalez, Taylor Grover, Justin Haley, Juan Hernandez, Bryan Hudson, Dedgar Jimenez, Raiwinson Lameda, Isaias Lucena, Danny Mars, Algenis Martinez, Kevin McAvoy, Daniel McGrath, Ritzi Mendoza, Mike Meyers, Mike Miller, Samuel Miranda, Joseph Monge, Jhon Nunez, Yankory Pimentel, Jordan Procyshen, Hildemaro Requena, Jeremy Rivera, Jake Romanski, Chandler Shepherd, Josh Smith, Teddy Stankiewicz, Cole Sturgeon, Aneury Tavarez, Carlos Tovar, Jantzen Witte Players eligible for minor league free agency now or in November 2017 are not listed above.

Yes. 2 games to regain is enough. Time to shine. Let's hope our bats keep the pressure off--just in case.

What a God send it would be if two of these three players could strike it big as soon as next year: Chavis (DH/1B) Brentz (DH) Barfield (DH) One problem will be that no GM would count on them to fill the roles of Moreland, Young and Nunez with better production. Chances are DD will sign a big FA to play DH or 1B and all will be blocked for as long as the new guy is signed for. Maybe one can prove himself before HRam is gone after 2018. That's probably their best hope.

I've already explained why I think it will be very difficult to stay highly competitive after 2020 or 2021. Almost certainly all the prospects traded away recently will adversely affect 2020 and beyond to some extent. It would be very unlikely that all those prospects fail. The rules have changed- making it much more difficult for high spending teams to sign international FAs and draftees that fall down the draft order into their laps due to signing issues. It's not impossible. I'm encouraged by some growth shown by our remaining prospects, and I liked our new draftees, but it looks to me like we will suffer to some large extent for the deals made for the "3-4 year window". I might be wrong. You guys might be right. I hope you are.

lol

The Sox would be taxed on whatever amount they pay, but if it is less than what they are paying him "off the books" I'm sure they'd go for it. I'm not so sure Castillo's 2017 AAA performance is enough to get some other team that interested. I'll bet Castillo stays in purgatory for the remainder of his contract. I'm hopeful with Brentz, but who knows. He could just be a very good AAAA player.

1) I was pulling your leg. I know you disagree with the "burning up the extended future" argument. 2) You are creating another straw man. I have never said I think it is impossible to rebuild the farm. I said that the new system of acquiring young talent and the fact that we rate to have lower draft picks than we had under Ben will make it much more difficult to build a farm as good as DD had when he took over the reigns. 3) Another straw man by saying I think DD is in "win at all costs mode". "All costs" is something I've never even hinted at. If he was in "all costs mode", we'd have traded Groome, Mata and maybe some of our recent draftees or other players not considered assets for the next 3 years for pieces that would improve our chances this year and/or the next 1-2 years. My position is that DD has over-reached to make us better for the next 3-4 years by worsening our chances for years 4-7. I happen to think he greatly worsened our chances in years 4-7. You don't. I happen to also think the prospects we traded away were highly rated nationally and will not be easily replaced or replenished by drafting lower and having higher restrictions on international signings. It's not impossible. I've never come close to saying I know with any certainty that the farm will not be rebuilt sufficiently enough to keep us strong from years 4-7, so you can stop pretending that's been my position. I think the odds are strongly against us being able to build up the farm quick enough to allow us to stay strong after year 4. Maybe we can have better luck with our FA signings and rebuild that way. Maybe we can have some surprise draft picks make it big. Nothing is impossible, but excuse me, if I don't subscribe to the pink glasses club concerning our extended future. To me, we are clearly worse of after 2020 due to deals DD has made. How much is up for debate. Cliff, hill or plain, nobody really knows, but to me the odds aren't pretty.

I have actually said the window might be 4 years, since I think re-setting the luxury tax will allow Henry to open the purse string for a few years. It will be hard to fill the voids you showed here for 2020. I doubt we finish in last place,even if we can't fill any of the voids with average to plus players, but certainly you have showed clear reason to be more concerned about 2020 and beyond than 2017 to 2019. I'm not sure you made a strong case for debunking the "myth".

True enough, but a win is a win, and it's nice to see some fire under our offense.

Here's a look at 2019 possible FAs: 1B Adrian Gonzalez Matt Adams Justin Smoak VMart Marwin Gonzalez 3B Adrian Beltre Josh Donaldson Manny Machado OF Bryce Harper Nelson Cruz (DH) Lonnie Chisenhall

Good answer. I'm not sure we can get one of those 3 first basemen for just one year, but it's worth a try. I would like to avoid any more mega large and long contracts like Moustakas will probably demand.

...and when Bogey comes of the suggested DL stint... 1. Pedey 2. Beni vs R/Bogey v R 3. Nunez 4. Betts 5. Devers 6. HRam 7. Bogey vs R/Beni v L 8. JBJ 9. Vaz Bench: Moreland, Young, Holt, Leon

I agree. All year, I have felt like there has been no "fire or desire" as I have called it. I get a sense that is changing. I'm hoping this team is finding its identity. Maybe it took this long to get over losing Papi- the face of the franchise. I'm hoping it's more than just another short hot streak.

Barfield has 19, but give him a day or two... 27 Chavis (4 HRs in his last 8 games) 22 Brentz (3 HRs in his last 3 games) 20 Devers + 3 in MLB (6 HRs in his last 9 games) 19 Barfield (7 HRs in his last 10 games0

If we can get Bogey back to hitting near .800, our line-up could be solid. vs RHPs 1) Pedey 2) Beni 3) Nunez DH 4) Betts 5) Devers 6) HRam 1B 7) JBJ 8) Bogey 9) Vaz vs LHPs 1) Pedey 2) Bogey 3) Nunez DH 4) Betts 5) Devers 6) HRam 1B 7) JBJ 8) Beni 9) Vaz Bench: Moreland Holt Young Leon

39 runs in the last 5 games. I hope this is a sign our offense is finally showing it's not as bad as it has looked for most of 4 months.

Nice win. Just finished watching the game on delay. The bats are on fire now. 39 runs in the last 5 games.

When Pedey comes back, we can move Nunez to SS and give Bogey 10 days off. I'm not a doctor, so I'm not going to pretend to know more than the Sox brass, but it looks like he needs an extended rest. Maybe just 2-3 days will do. maybe a day off every 4-5 days for a while will work. Now that Moreland seems to be coming out of his slump, I'm not sure we'll need Nunez at DH as much as I originally thought he'd be used. To me, it looks like giving Bogey a break might be best.

Maybe someday we can see... 1. Pedey 2. Beni 3. Nunez 4. Betts 5. Devers 6. HRam 7. JBJ 8. Moreland-Young 9. Vaz