moonslav59

It's an unhealthy love affair.

Innings as a catcher vs MLB teams: 32 Vaz 27 O Hernandez 23 Butler 23 Rei 23 Swihart 21 Leon 9 Procyshen & J Nunez I don't really see a sign here for turning Swihart into our #2 catcher, but then again.... Swihart's innings elsewhere: 11 at 1B 6 at LF 0 at 2B or 3B

Here's somethings I found: http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/red_sox_mlb/boston_red_sox/2015/08/lauber_ben_cherington_hurt_by_own_unselfish_approach https://nesn.com/2011/10/ben-cherington-to-take-multi-factorial-approach-to-rebuilding-culture-of-red-sox-video/ (See all 4 parts)\ https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexreimer/2016/09/20/red-sox-success-traces-back-to-ousted-general-manager-ben-cherington/#6453bf173b92 http://www.espn.com/mlb/playoffs/2013/story/_/id/9807343/how-gm-ben-cherington-rebuilt-boston-red-sox Epstein, who endorsed Cherington as his successor upon leaving Boston to run the Chicago Cubs two years ago, remains a Cherington fan. "He has tremendous insights about the game and about people and applies them in myriad ways to make the organization and those around him better," Epstein said in an email. "He is a steady, dependable and understated person who is systematic in his work and his communication but ultimately empowers those around him. Ben was instrumental in building the foundation for the Red Sox's success through his work in player development and obviously has been outstanding in shaping this year's team out of the adversity the organization faced in 2012." http://www.masslive.com/redsox/index.ssf/2012/03/ben_cherington_says_red_sox_wi.html

I liked the Nunez signing, but there is a chance his time with Boston last year was just an isolated hot streak. That .882 at Fenway was special, and I hope he can keep that up.

Let's just hope we hold onto those paddles.

Here's how I see our roster shaping up: DL: ERod (60 Day?), Pedey (60 Day?), Wright, Pomeranz, Hernandez, Thordnburg 5 SP: Sale, Price, Porcello, Johnson, Velazquez* 7 RP: Kimbrel, Smith, Kelly, Barnes, Hembree, Workman, Scott (* We could start Velazquez in AAA and call him up for game 5, which would allow Marrero or Holt to start on the big club for 4 games.) 3 C: Vaz, Leon, Swihart (LF/1B/3B) 2 1B: HRam & Moreland 1-2 2B: Nunez & Holt* (3B/SS/OF/1B) 1-2 3B: Devers & Marrero* (2B/SS) 1 SS: Bogey 1 LF: Beni 1 CF: JBJ 1 RF: Betts 1 DH/OF: JDM AAA with ML potential in 2018 SP: Beeks, Haley, Shepherd RP: Maddox, Buttrey, Layne, Poyner, martin C: Butler 1B: Travis (Ockimey AA) 2B: Holt/Marrero & Quiroz 3B: de Jesus SS: Lin LF: Castillo CF: Taverez RF: Barfield DH: Chavis (AA) & Witte Here's the line-up I think Cora will start with: 1. Beni LF 2. Betts RF 3. HRam 1B 4. JDM DH 5. Devers 3B 6. Nunez 2B 7. Bogey SS 8. JBJ CF 9. Vaz C

I was expecting to see him playing 1B and 3B more often. Maybe they are doing that in practice time. Still, I'm not sure we can read too much into Swi starting 4 of 18 games. Six catchers have 21+ innings. Swi has 23 innings. I could see Swihart eventually winning the 2 catcher slot, but I doubt it happens, especially by opening day.

I think he was projected as a plus on defense too early, probably due to his extremely quick release time on throws to 2B amd strong arm. As we all know, throwing out base stealers is just a minor part of catcher defense. I seriously doubt Swi will ever become good enough on defense for my liking, but if his bat develops into something special, he might not have to get beyond barely decent on D

Maybe, but the fact that Sox management has all but given up on Swihart as a catcher speaks volumes.

Cobb might be a shocker, too.

Since Nunez, JD and Swihart can play OF, I don't see Lin's ability to play OF as a deciding factor. Marrero is out of options, so if Cora and DD like him, he seems like the obvious choice to keep system depth all in place. An argument can be made that finding no-hit-good glove infielders like Marrero is easy to do, so maybe we DFA Marrero. (He may be DFA'd and not claimed and end up staying with us in AAA.) I can see choosing Linover Holt, since he's a better defender, and that's what our IF lacks. Marrero or Lin could be used as late inning defensive replacements for Nunez and Devers. A case could be made to trade Swihart and keep Lin and Marrero on the 25man roster until Pedey returns.

MLBTR... Veteran starter Alex Cobb, he says, was in position to secure a four-year, $48MM offer at one point earlier in the winter (from an unknown team) and “easily” could have landed a three-year guarantee. We’re obviously still waiting to see just what Cobb will ultimately earn, but needless to say, it seems unlikely he’ll reach the levels he might have had previously. In the meantime, several lesser pitchers have gone on to sign fairly solid, multi-year deals, perhaps absorbing some of the demand that might have led to a better payout for Cobb

How ready can any new pitcher be for game 5 in April? I think we are going to go with what we got and hope returning starters get healthy by the time we need to move on from a failing experiment, assuming one or two fail from Johnson/Velazquez.

Well said.

I'm hopeful but not too optimistic on Devers on defense. I'm thinking he may end up at 1B or DH, when all is said and done. I'm hoping he can get to a decent level by playoff time.

Holt has options. I'd go with the glove (Marrero) to start the season. Marrero is out of options, and while I agree finding guys like marrero are easy to pick up, Holt should not ever be used as a defensive replacement late in a game. His offense is not good enough to play any IF position for us. Nunez and Swihart can cover the 4th OF'er slot, and JD can play OF in NL parks. Holt's OF availability is no longer needed, nor is his ability to play 1B. Holt gives us good minor league ML ready depth at several positions. Marrero, Swihart, Moreland and Leon should be our opening day bench, as I see it. Holt, Travis and Lin give us good minor league depth.

Yes, but if we hadn't signed Moreland and traded Holt (DFA), we probably could have squeezed Lynn or Cobb into our budget. I totally agree on keeping the $4-5M spending budget into the season. Give Johnson and Velazquez a 4-5 game leash, and by then, we'll know more about the health status of Pom, Price, Wright and ERod. I know it's hard to find a decent SP'er in May, but it's not impossible. The added benefit of waiting is that we just pay the pro-rated salary of whoever we pick up. That makes it easier to squeeze under the $4-5M we have left and get better quality than we can get now.

If we had not signed Moreland, we'd have over $10M to spend in this "candy store" instead of about $4M. Swihart could get some reps at 1B to help keep HRam from vesting. When JD plays DH, we could use Swihart in LF whenever an OF'er needed a rest or got hurt. We could also PH for our catchers with impunity, since Swihart could act as our 3rd catcher. (He might also be the one PH'ing for aour starting catcher that game.) Swihart could easily get 300-400+ PAs, assuming he does well. Now, with Moreland on the bench, Swihart is squeezed out of any meaningful non-injury-related chance to get many PAs. I do think, even with the deck stacked aginst him, if Swihart hits well, we'll find him a way to get meaningful PAs, or we'll trade him.

We could "what if" all day long. Players under perform andover perform all the time, and GMs and coaches get the creditor blame all to often. I will say this, if HRam had hit like 2016 in 2015, if Porcello had pitched like 2016 in 2015 and had Pablo hit 60-70% of his career normin 2015, Ben might still be here. I guess it's Ben's fault these players played much better once DD took over. Of course, Ben has to shoulder much of the balme for the staff building (or lack of). The Masterson signing was a joke. I am pretty sure, Ben was going to address the rotation in 2015. He never got a chance.

2012-2017 Sox catcher numbers ISO .124 Leon (.129 in 2017) .113 Swihart .094 Vazquez (.114 in 2017) SLG .383 Swihart .375 Leon (.354 in 2017) .355 Vazquez (.404 in 2017)

Every single person with knowledge of catcher defense and the Red Sox would say Swihart is worse on defense and game calling than Leon & Vaz. I'm sure of this. Now, you are back to saying Swihart has more "pop" and "slugging", when there is no evidence to support your claim... even ST'ing numbers show Leon is at least equal. Again, I'm all for trying to find ABs for Swihart. That's one reason I hated the Moreland signing (not the major one). I want Swihart to make the 25 man roster, and he'll get a chance to earn more and more playing time by showing he can one, hit better than others and two field any position he is asked to field at a decent level. I do think he should hit better than Leon this year and probably better than Vaz as well, but I think you vastly under estimate the value of catcher defense, and or you vastly over rate Swiharts catcher defense. Yes, he can throw guys out well enough. To me, and many others, that's just a small fraction of the value of catcher defense. Swihart is already old enough to have shown significant growth in this area. Can he get better? Of course, he can. VTek wasn't really a great defensive catcher until his early 30's. We are not going to hand Swihart a big chunk of starting duties in hopes he learns as he goes. We're already doing that at 3B and have serious defensive issues at 2B and SS (and 1B with HRam). Swihart's best chaance at getting ABs is at 1B or through injury. He can PH a lot, and show he can hit, and then he may get more and more ABs. Even then (assuming an .850 OPS), I doubt they make him the 1 or 2 catcher.

Marrero, if he makes the roster. That would mean Holt starts in AAA.

Updated scouting reports on.... Devers http://soxprospects.com/players/devers-rafael.htm Groome http://soxprospects.com/players/groome-jay.htm Chavis http://soxprospects.com/players/chavis-michael.htm Mata http://soxprospects.com/players/mata-bryan.htm Houck http://soxprospects.com/players/houck-tanner.htm

Now, it's not about "pop" or power. It's about hitting with men on and BA. (BTW, Leon hit .865 with RISP last year while Vaz was at a respectable .792. Leon was .759 high leverage.) Catching defense means nothing.

Moon he's not a power bat ok ??? But he's a talented hitter 280s maybe higher right ? I mean the kids a career 270 but that's wrapped up in some extremely handicapped comeback attempts is it not .... It was you that went out of your way to say we need "pop" from our catchers and cited their low HR totals last year. Look, I know Swihart rates to be a better than Vaz and especially Leon, but he's no sure bet, and he really sucked on defense when he had his chance. Our offense is not in such great need that we should sacrifice our pitching and defense to get a marginal upgrade at the catcher position on offense. I'm a big Swihart supporter, but not as our 1 or 2 catcher. He may end up winning the #2 slot, but he'll have to hit .850+ to make up for the loss on defense. We need Blake to figure it out behind the plate Defensivly but he's not a train wreck back there come onnn.He can hit for high average to all fields he can play third ,short ,second 1st left and Right fields .... Trust our scouts and management. We are not going to place our fragile pitching staff in teh hands of a catcher that "needs to learb" how to catch. He's been catching for many years, andhasn't proven squat behind the plate. He'd be great as a 3rd catcher as we can PH for our catchers when needed. He can get some PAs at 1B and LF. He may even play 2B or 3B, but I'm not throwing him at any position FT to start the year. You often speak of Devers and other Sox players very highly, but then you act like we are in desperate need of offense from a position not known for great offense. Vaz and Leon have established a relationship with our pitchers. I don't want to mess it up, and neither should you. The kid was a shortstop ....the kid pitched in the upper 90s ....99 his sophomore year to be exact ...don't tell me he can't catch that's horse crap ...we need that bat behind the plate spelling Vaz ...I'm not ever saying Blake hits 22 HR he's never done it !!! I am saying he hits 290 and rakes with men on ....I am saying he needs to be given the opportunity right now ....it's time .I am extremely frustrated with his development as a catcher ....the kid could be an All star caliber catcher offensively why not go all in what are we really risking here ? We're risking messing up a staff that already has enough injury issues to deal with. Swihart likely sucks with pitchers. Can we find out some as the season goes on? Sure! But "now" is certainly not that time. Sandy is not pudge Moon he's Sandy Leon a very mediocre catcher bottom third ....Blake Swihart could be much much more .let Sandy be Sales caddy If that's what Sale wants ...and Wright ? The rest ahould go to Vaz and Blake ....you can't take away this kids bat speed ...it's there .I know you see it .my diatribe is over taken its course I've said what I see in the player ...ultimately sometimes it's fate ...I hope he takes this season and blows all the doors and roofs off everyone's low expectations ....but he won't shock me . Leon is much better than you give him credit for being.