moonslav59

I'm not so sure I agree. If he starts out hot, most GMs will just think it's another hot streak about to end. If he starts out slow, they'll think this is what JBJ has been all along.

The jury is still out, to some extent, since the prospects we traded might turn out to be "the wrong ones", but clearly Sale, Kimbrel and Pom have met or exceeded expectations.

Yes, we had weak young pitching prospects that were ML ready, but we did have Espinoza, Kopech, Johnson and Allen along with future flame-outs like Owens.

We'd probably have to give ERod+ or JBJ & Johnson.

I don't think I've ever been one to blame LL for anything bad Ben or Theo did. I know others have. I think debating a GMs moves is a large part of why boards like this exist. All the "what ifs? and WTF's? constitute a significant percentage of all posts, rightly or wrongly. It's been decades since I ever called for a GMs head, although I've been highly critical of many decisions made along the way. I'm also usually one of the last posters to call for a manager to be fired, including Bobby V. I actually like DD, and looking at the totality of all his moves, I'd say he's on the positive side. I'm okay with a win now philosphy that involves a window bigger than 1-2 years. A 4-5 year window was and still is fine by me, but some assume I hate Ben, because I speak of the cliff too often. I try to be a realist despite my Sox bias. I like to discuss GM moves, non moves, managerial choices, but I try to avoid criticisms of managers over one or two in game choices made. That's one reason I usually avoid game threads. I get that hindsight judgement of GMs is not inherently fair, but it's an age-old tradition that is hard to shake. (That's one reason I try to give my opinion right away, so it does not appear like I am hindsight bashing or praising.)

At the time, DLR and Webster were probably our best young ML ready pitching hopes. Sorry for the boo boo on Smith. Ben did trade Iggy and Montas for Peavy, though.

I do not think Swihart's trade value is as high as his talksox perceived value (myself included). That being said, how about Swihart, Travis, Johnson and Beeks for Danny Duffy? (Cue a harmony OPS projection post)

Beni "raking" has nothing to do with trading JBJ.

Yes, and that probably goes for every team, except those with crappy pens.

In my opinion, Ben's purse string were more limited than DD's, but you are right, he wrongfully felt the 2015 pitching staff :was good enough" to compete. I feel his plan was to finally solve the 3B issue we'd had for years and try to make up for a declining offense by signing Pablo & HRam. Had Pablo just repeated 2014 and HRam had his 2016 season in 2015, Ben might still have his job. With just Scherzer and Lester on the market in 2015, I think Ben set his sights on 2016 for starting pitchers as that was set to be a saturated market that following year. I'm as certain as certain can be that he'd have signed someone (maybe Cueto or Greinke instead of Price) and traded some (blocked) prospects for pitching. Nobody knows for sure, but I do not think Ben was going to keep all his best prospects forever. For one thing, they couldn't all fit on the roster, and for another thing, he'd already proven he was willing to trade young players away (RDL & Webster for Miley and then Aro with Miley for Carson Smith). Just my opinion.

I think the studies show your worst hitter out of your top 5 or 6 should bat 3rd. That would indicate HRam. I've always felt like your best all around hitter should bat 3rd, but I've changed my views. So, if your best hitter should bat 2nd, shouldn't this be our template? 1) Betts 2) JMart 3) HRam 4) Beni 5) Devers 6) Bogey 7) Nunez 8) JBJ 9) Vaz

Again, we're not replacing JBJ's bat with beni's, assuming we trade JBJ. We already have Beni's bat FT in the line-up. The comp is.... (assuming we tradde JBJ for a SP'er or JBJ & Wright or Johnson for a SP'er) Offense: More PAs from HRam/Moreland/Nunez or maybe Travis/Swihart vs JBJ's bat Beni's D in CF vs JBJ JMart's D in LF vs Beni's The SP'er we get vs Johnson/Wright.Velazquez I can see a case where the trade would be worth it. As much as I am a huge JBJ fan, I'm not against trading anyone, if it makes us overall, but with out IF defense already pretty bad off, I'm not sure weakening 2 OF positions is the direction we should go. If we can assume the offense would be better with Nunez/Moreland/HRam over JBJ and that differential is close to the same value as the loss on defense, then whatever pitcher we might get could certainly tip the balance of value from a JBJ trade to thegood. I suggested Salazar at one time. If Salazar got hurt (again), what then?

Those three moves were largely thought of as overpays. It doesn't take a genius to overpay. When the overpay fails, though, the GM is labeled a fool.

Again, teenie, tiny sample sizes. Devers had 4 PAs in cleanup (.750). 66 up 5th is not a lot (.626) 73 PAs up 6th (.813) 69 up 7th (.907) Only 9 up 8th (1.000) 19 up 9th (1.109) I'd love to see Devers get a chance up 4th or 5th this year, and not because of an injury. The kid is a great hitter. He's got way more power than Bogey, so he might be better up 5th day one.

That is a big one, and I love that change in approach.

Going out on a real limb there, aren't you?

Yes, my bad.

I don't mind crazy swinga as much as most, as long as he ends up over .830, like he did for 3 years in a row. (Actually, I wouldn't mind .750 all that much and think he's still a net plus at .650.) Since we'd essentially be replacing JBJ with Moreland/Nunez, we don't gain any "team control: years by trading JBJ.

We'd not really be adding beni to the line-up, so the 40-50 point increase in CF BA is not the true comp. The real offensive comp would be to whom JBJ was replaced by. My guess is Moreland would play 1B, HRam DH and JD LF. That means whoever was going to be on the bench out of HRam/Moreland would be the guy getting more playing time in place of JBJ. It could also be Nunez once Pedey returns. The comp: Defense: JBJ>>Beni CF Beni > JD LF Moreland > HRam at 1B Offense: HRam/Moreland/Nunez >= Then, what plus does who we get for JBJ bring to another area of the team?

I think this one may have the most impact: Chris Sale and David Price looked at each other and smiled when Cora first suggested they do less work between starts and slow down their spring training build-ups to be more rested later in the year. The starting pitchers loved the routine so much that the relievers eventually began scaling back too. It’s a gamble to mess with the routines of veteran Cy Young contenders, but so far so good.

He's not. I just listed all current Sox players with 10+ PAs.

I have written about trading JBJ. For example, I mentioned trading him for a healthy Salazar (I know- oxymoron). The plus we gain in the rotation could off set the loss in CF defense. If Moreland can hit better than JBJ, then we might gain or stay even on offense and make JD happy by playing the OF. As soon as JD hurts his foot running into the wall, all hell would break out on this forum.

It's a puny sample size, but his total OF one is not that small. If you are arguing beni might be close to as good as JBJ on defense in CF after 3 months, I think it's you that has to provide some evidence. I seriously doubt he can.

I don't doubt they worry about JBJ's slumps. My point was that his ST'ing slump probably did not significantly increase that "worry."