moonslav59

If he has a "no ass-hole" policy, why did he acquire Kyrie in the first place? Is this a new policy?

I'd add JBJ to the short list with Bogey & Devers.

Sox OPS Since May 1st: 1.002 Devers .988 Bogey .925 JBJ .925 JD .889 Vaz .866 Holt .801 Betts .790 Beni .754 Chavis .657 Nunez .615 Leon

Top MLB OPS since May 20th: 150+ PAs 7. JBJ 1.057 8. Devers 1.056 12. Bogaerts 1.022

Doesn't Vaz have his own thread somewhere?

He just threw Monday. I think it will be weeks after the ASB... maybe after July 24th.

I'm not sure why I soured on him so quickly. It's not like me.

..and Max, and...

You seem to be needing it a lot lately, and you're welcome.

In defense of Beni, before his last 2 games (0-8), he was... .901 in previous 11 games .880 in his previous 19 games .828 in his previous 43 games Counting the last 2 games, he is at .796 the last 45 games and .806 the last 21 games.

This data not related to our debate.

2018 vs 2019 after 85 Games: 2018 ERA- 2019 18 Workman 36 38 Poyner 329 48 Kimbrel/ Brasier 71 (not on roster in 2018 @ gm 85) 54 Sale 80 58 Barnes 103 60 Velazquez 111 75 Wright 94 75 Kelly/ Brewer 88, Taylor 110 & Smith 113 (not on roster last year) 81 Porcello 106 81 Hembree 52 82 Walden 73 84 CSmith/ Weber 107 (not on roster) 92 ERod 100 96 Johnson 134 96 Price 70 152 Pom/ Eovaldi 125 (not on roster @ gm 85) & Shawaryn 178 Only 3 pitchers doing better. Batting (after 85 games) 2018 OPS 2019 1.103 Betts .842 1.025 JD .915 .889 Moreland .859 .872 Beni .778 .831 Bogey .933 .774 Holt .764 .732 Devers .926 .726 Leon .597 .708 HRam/ Chavis .795 .637 Nunez .572 .616 JBJ .751 .563 Vaz .833 .460 Lin/ Marco .792

Hard to know. Betts is way more expensive and has less control years.

My guess is we don't have enough to add with Beni to get Scherzer, Bumgarner or Syndergaard, but I'd think about Stroman (1.5 yrs of control), John Means (pre arb), Matthew Boys (3.5 yrs) or maybe Caleb Smith (4.5). I'm no expert on other team's players, but I'd give serious thought to these 4. I'm sure more are out there.

I'm thinking our offense can absorb his loss, and the return pitcher's benefit would outweigh his loss. If I don't think the return is worth it, then don't trade him.

I think he may be the one guy valuable to bring back something of value and greater need. My only issue with trading him is that we only have Holt & JD (maybe Pearce someday) to replace him.

We should try hard to acquire a solid RP'er before these series.

Yes, in another team's uniform.

Updated Starter vs Pen Numbers: By Wins and Losses Responsibility Game by Game: Starters 17-23 (-6) Relievers 27-16 (+11) Alternative Scoring System (+2, +1, 0, -1, -2 given for each game) SP +22 RP +40

Good point. Other than Price, our starters are a roulette wheel. Yes, ERod gets one or two more outs per start than before, but he had his best year in 2018. 2019 is not even close. Yes, Sale has looked better than his putrid early season starts, but he is far away from his dominant self. Porcello is a total mess with a few gems sprinkled into all the chaos. Our 5th starter have somehow managed to have a winning record in their starts, but they have been a joke. Updated after yesterday's game: Updated tally after 82 games: By Wins and Losses Responsibility Game by Game: Starters 17-23 (-6) Relievers 27-16 (+11) Alternative Pitcher Scoring System: + 2 for any SP'er or Pen game where their ERA is 3.00 or less for 5 or more innings, 2.00 for 4 or less innings, 1.00 for 3 or less innings or 0.00 for 2 or less innings +1 for any SP'er or Pen game where their ERA is 3.00 or less for 4.2 or less innings. 0 for any game where their ERA is between 3.01 and 4.50. -1 for any game where their ERA is between 4.51 and 6.00. -2 for any game over 6.01 1. L 12-4 Sale 7/3- Pen 4/5 (S-2/R -2) 2. W 7-6 Eovaldi 6/5- Pen 0/4 (S-2/R+2) 3. L 6-5 ERod 5/4.1- Pen 0/3.2 (S-2/R+2) 4. L 10-8 Porcello 4/2.2- Pen 1/5.1 (S-2/R+2) 5. L 6-0 Price 4/6- Pen 2/2 (S-2/R-2) 6. L 1-0 Sale 1/6- Pen 0/2 (S+2/R+2) 7. W 6-3 Eovaldi 3/5- Pen 0/4 (S-1/R+2) 8. L 7-3 ERod 6/3.2- Pen 1/4.1 (S-2/R +2) 9. L 15-8 Porcello 7/4.2- Pen 8/3.1 (S-2/R-2) 10. W 5-4 Price 4/6- Pen 1/3 (S-1/R+1) Sub Total: SP -14/ RP +7 11. W 1-0 Velaz 0/3- Pen 0/6 (S+2/R+2) 12. L 7-5 Sale 5/4- Pen 2/5 (S-2/R+2) 13. W 7-6 Eovaldi 5/5- Pen 1/4 (S-2/R+2) 14. W 6-4 ERod 2/6.2- Pen 2/2.1 (S+2/-2) 15. L 9-5 Porcello 3/4- Pen 4/5 (S-2/R-2) 16. W 4-0 Price 0/7- Pen 0/2 (S+2/R+2) 17. L 8-1 Velaz 1/3- Pen 7/6 (S+1*/R-2) 18. L 8-0 Sale 4/5- Pen 4/3 (S-2/R-2) 19. L 5-3 Eovaldi 0/6- Pen 4/2 (S+2/R-2) 20. W 6-4 ERod 3/5.1- Pen 0/3.2 (S-1/R+2) Sub Total: SP +0/ RP +0 21. W 6-5 Porcello 2/5.2- Pen 3/3.1 (S+0/R-2) 22. W 4-3 Price 2/5- Pen 1/6 (S+2/R+2) 23. L 7-4 Sale 2/5- Pen 5/4 (S+2/R-2) 24. L 4-2 Velaz 3/3.1- Pen 1/5.9 (S-2/R+2) 25. W 11-4 ERod 1/6- Pen 3/3 (S+2/R-2) 26. W 7-2 Porcello 3/6- Pen 0/3 (S+0/R+2) 27. L 2-1 Price 2/6- Pen 0/3 (S+2/S+2) 28. L 5-2 Sale 2/7(2 unearned)- Pen 1/2 (S+2/R+0) 29. W 9-4 ERod 4/4.2- Pen 0/4.1 (S-2/R+2) 30. W 5-1 Porcello 0/8- Pen 1/1 (S+2/R-2) Sub Total: SP +8/ RP +2 31. W 7-3 Velaz 1/2- Pen 2/7 (S-2/R+2) 32. L 6-4 Price 3/6- Pen 2/2.1 (1 unearned) (S+0/R-2) 33. W 6-1 Sale 0/6- Pen 1/3 (S+2/R+1) 34. W 15-2 ERod 1/6- Pen 1/3 (S+2/R+1) 35. W 9-2 Porcello 2/6- Pen 0/3(S+2/R+2) 36. L 4-1 Smith 4/3.1- Pen 0/4.2 (S-2/R+2) 37. W 8-5 Velaz 2/3- Pen 3/7 (S-2/R+0) 38. W 2-1 Sale 1/8- Pen 0/4 (S+2/R+2) 39. W 14-1 ERod 0/7- Pen 1/2 (S+2/R+0) 40. W 9-5 Porcello 4/6.2- Pen 1/2.2 (S-1/R+0) Sub Total: SP+7/RP +8 41. W 11-2 Velz 2/5- Pen 0/4 (S+2/R+2) 42. L 5-4 Sale 2/7- Pen 3/4 (S+2/R-2) 43. W 6-5 ERod 5/6- Pen 0/4 (S-2/R+2) 44. L 3-1 Porcello 2/7 - Pen 0/2 (S+2/R+2) 45. L 7-3 Velaz 5/0.1 -Pen 2/8.2 (S-2/R+2) 46. W 4-3 Sale 3/5.1- Pen 0/3.2 (S+0/R+2) 47. W 12-2 Price 0/5 (2 unearned)- Pen 0/4 (S+2/R+2) 48. L 10-3 ERod 6/5- Pen 4/3 (S-2/R-2) 49. W 6-5 Porcello 1/6- Pen 4/7 (S+2/R+0) 50. W 8-2 Weber 1/6- Pen 1/3 (S+2/R+1) Sub Total: SP +6/ RP +9 51. L 4-3 Sale 2/6- Pen 0/2 (S+2/R+2) 52. L 4-3 Price 0/0.2- Pen 4/7.1 (S+0*/R+1) 53. W 4-1 ERod 1/6- Pen 0/3 (S+2/R+2) 54. W 12-5 Porcello 3/6.2 2 unearned- Pen 0/2.1 (S+1/R+2) 55. L 7-5 Price 0/6- Pen 7/3 (S+2/R-2) 56. L 14-9 Weber 7/4- Pen 7/5(S-2/R-2) 57. L 4-1 Sale 4/6- Pen 0/2 (S+0/R+2) 58. L 5-3 Porcello 5/4.2- Pen 0/3.1 (S-2/R+2) 59. W 8-5 Price 2/6.1- Pen 3/2.2 (S+2/R-2) 60: W8-3 KCR: ERod 2/5.2 2/ RP 1/3.1 1 (S+2/R+1) Sub Total: SP +7/ RP +6 61: W 8-0 KCR: Sale 0/9.0 (S+3**) 62: W 7-5 KCR: Weber 2/1.1- Pen: 3/7.2 IP 3 (S-2/R+1) 63: L 5-1 TBR: Porcello 4/6 IP- Pen 1/3.0 (S+0/R+1) 64: L 9-2 TBR: Josh Smith 4/4.0 IP- Pen 4/5.0 IP (S-2/R-2) 65: W 5-1 TBR: Price 1/6.0 IP-Pen 0/3.0 (S+2/R+2) 66: L 6-1 TBR: ERod 4/5.2- Pen 2/4.1 (S-2/R+0) 67: L 4-3 TEX: Sale 0/7.0- Pen 3/4.0 (S+2/R-2) 68: L 9-5 TEX: DHerm 3/3- Pen 5/6.0 (S-2/R-2) 69: W 4-3 TEX: Porcello 2/6.2-Pen 0/2.1 (S+2/R+2) 70: W 7-6 TEX: Price 6/1.1- Pen 0/7.9 (S-2/R+3**) Sub Total: SP -1/ RP +3 71: W 13-2 BAL: ERod 1/7- Pen 1/2.0 (S+2/R+0) 72: W 7-2 BAL: Sale 2/6.0- Pen 0/2.0 (S+2/R+2) 73: W 8-6 BAL in 10: Johnson 1/3.0 IP- Pen 3/7.0 (S+1/R+1) 74: W 2-0 MN: Porcell 0/7- Pen 0/2.0 (S+2/R+2) 75: L 4-3 MN (17 inn): Price 1/5.0- Pen 3/11.1 (S+2/R+2) 76: W 9-4 MN: ERod 4/7- Pen 0/2.0 (S+0/R+2) 77. W 7-5 TOR: Sale 3/5.0- (1 unearned)/ Pen 1/5.0 (S+0/R+2) 78: L 8-7 TOR: Johnson 0/5.0- Pen 7/4.0 (S+2/R-3**) 79: L 6-1 TOR: Porcello 5/6.0- Pen 1/3.0 (S-2/R+1) 80: W6-5 CWS: ERod 5/6.0- Pen 0/3.0 (S-2/R+2) Sub Total: SP +7/ RP +11 81: W6-3 CWS: Price 2/6.0- Pen 0/3.0 (S+2/R+2) 82: L 8-7 CWS: Sale 5/6.0-Pen 3/3.0 (S-2/R-2) 83: L 17-13 NYY: Porcello 6/0.1- Pen 11/8.2 (S-2/R-2) 84: L 12-8 NYY: ERod 2/5.1-Pen 9/3.2 (S+2/R-2) 85: W 10-6 TOR: Price 2/6.0- Pen 4/3 (S+2/R-2) The pen has never been minus in any 10 game segment. The season totals after 79 games: SP +22 RP +40

No shame.

Must be WTF Cora.

...and as Max pointed out, some had close to or more ST'ing IP'd than last year. No matter what date you chose,other than Price, our starters are doing worse than 2018, worse than 2016-2018 combined and have been responsible for more Sox losses than the pen. It's not even close. That is not to say we don't need pen help. I still think a pen upgrade is our #1 priority this summer.

You've moved the goal posts from "have done near career norms" from May 1st to "will perform..."

You still don't get it. It's not your theory I disagree with. I actually agree the ST'ing rest was part of the reason for the slow start. I agree that our starters have done better after March & April, but they were so bad, that's not hard to do. It's your point of fact concerning our top starters pitching to their norm after their "rest period" I took issue with, and I stated that time after time. Yes, I added some distracters about how I had expected the rest to maybe help them do better than their norms once they settled in, but they have not. They are heading in the wrong direction, with the exception of Price.