moonslav59

True nuff. He'll be protected from Rule 5, for sure, though.

My guess is Bloom had identified the most likely players not to make next year's 40 man roster, including Rule 5 eligible players likely needing to be protected. Looking at 2022's roster: Free Agents (may extend or re-sign one or some): ERod Ottavino Marwin Santana Workman Team Options Andriese- likely bye-bye Richards- likely bye-bye Perez- likely keep Vaz- keep Opt out? JD Martinez Borderline keep, Traded or DFA'd? Brice Chavis Arauz Potts Wilson Rios Groome Rosario Plawecki or Wong? That's a lot of slots opening up or potentially opening up. I see about 12-15 of these guys gone, so maybe we trade some of them, before we lose them for nothing- assuming the ones I'm talking about have trade value. If we add 4-6 free agents, we might be down to 6-10 slots for Rule 5 and borderline players listed above. Rule 5: Jecorrah Arnold Brayan Bello Cole Brannen Gary Calvo Marco Cardoso Pedro Castellanos Felix Cepeda Kole Cottam Kutter Crawford Ricardo Cubillan Osvaldo De La Rosa Tyler Dearden Jonathan Diaz Danny Diaz Jeter Downs Jarren Duran- Already added Tyler Esplin Durbin Feltman Ryan Fernandez Ryan Fitzgerald Antoni Flores Frank German Rio Gomez Devlin Granberg Gilberto Jimenez Jose Larez Dominic LoBrutto Bryan Lucas Charlie Madden Alan Marrero Elih Marrero Joan Martinez Alexander Montero Oddanier Mosqueda Brendan Nail Brett Netzer Tanner Nishioka Kaleb Ort Yusniel Padron-Artiles Aaron Perry Antonio Police AJ Politi Ceddanne Rafaela Oscar Rangel Tyreque Reed Jesus Rosillo Yasel Santana Zach Schellinger Alex Scherff John Schreiber Gregori Segovia Chase Shugart Miguel Suero Jake Thompson Thaddeus Ward Grant Williams Josh Winckowski Bloom will not protect all the bolded players, so maybe he trades 1 or 2 of those he feel might be drafted.

There were some posters who wanted him on the opening day roster or called up in early May. If we are talking about rewarding posters for getting the closest to when his actual call up occurred, oldtimer wins the prize, but those who said September were about as close to those who said opening day or May. Anyway, I'm glad he's up. I thought this would finally end the debate. I should have known better.

Yes, getting Sale for Kopech, Moncada and others actually shows they were valued.

Maybe, but we are weak on OF depth on the farm. Jimenez will be added this winter to protect from rule 5 but is probably not going to be ML ready by 2022.

Ward has not impressed when pitching, but I agree on adjusting those two

It’s guess work but we did pick higher this year.

He’s at .745 after his first 350 PAs in MLB and .830 over his last 80. Are you saying .800 is near impossible?

And 2017-2020 combined Barnes. My point was Barnes was worth close to $8M x 2 prior to 2021’s explosion.

Whatever you do, don’t tell iortiz!

The 4 roster slots that can be upgraded may just be from within the system: Duran for Chavis (Santana) Houck for Brice Sale for Workman Brasier for Rios/Andriese I do think we trade for one or two players but will not give up much in return.

Time to stop the bleeding. Let’s keep the petal to the metal on the clowns! Duran to start! Life is all good in Red Sox Nation.

I'm not the one lying then telling others to act like a man. Stop inventing positions people don't hold, and the debate is over.

True, but even a slight uptick would show they think his contract did exceed his projected value.

ERA is about the worst stat to use for a RP'er. Even using ERA+ or ERA- is not as good as using OPS Against or other stats. Barnes was very good from 2017-2020 combined. Even 2020 saw a .705 OPS against. While that is not "very good," my point was that from 2017-2020 he was- not every second or minute, but a 127 ERA+ is certainly very good. It is 27% better than the league norm after adjustments are made for park and other factors. If he was a FA, this winter, after posting a 127 ERA+ in 2021, I think he'd have gotten $8M x 2, or at least something close to it. No way am I claiming he was 2021 elite from 2017-2020, but he was very good. Out of 218 RP'ers with 100+ IP from 2017-2020, here's how fangraphs ranks Barnes. (Note: fangraphs is pretty harsh on pitchers who walk a lot of batters) 26th in fWAR at 3.4 15th xFIP at 3.12 (some might say this is close to elite) 13th in K% at 34.1% 29th in K%/BB% at 22.3% To be fair, these rankings look "good" not 'very good:" 86th in ERA- at 86 122nd in WHIP at 1.30 I can see someone thinking he was good and not "very good," but I think I have evidence enough to say "very good."

Questioning posters who felt Duran should have been called up before or long before Bloom wanted him called up was not bashing them. Many even said, after the questioning, things like, "Yes, I trust Bloom knows what he's doing." I sympathized with the frustrations we all felt watching player after player fail their test (Cordero, Santana and others) and how we all felt the sense of urgency that comes with wanting to win a ring. I wasn't bashing anyone. I was supporting Bloom's knowledge, patience and decison-making.

You act like a man. You claimed I was against calling him up when you knew my position was not even close to that. You lied. You man up and admit it. You said people bashed Duran and were full of "negativity", but now you say they bashed supporters of calling him up way before he was called up. Man up and admit your claim was wrong. Nobody bashed Duran. Yes, some people criticized people for acting like they knew better than Bloom, and let's not sugar coat it. Those who screamed for him to be called up "NOW" were indirectly saying Bloom was wrong not to call him up 3, 4, 6 or 8 weeks ago. Hell, some wanted him on the opening day roster. Now, you run around patting yourself on the back and making claims that are totally false about other people's positions, including my own, and I'm supposed to "man up?" LOL! I feel like I'm talking to Swihart's Ghost, here. Come on! You know damn well I never even came close to hinting at the idea Duran should not be called up, this year. I never named a date, at all.I took the 'easy" position as you called it a few minutes ago, by saying he's ready when Bloom says he is, then, all of a sudden youc laim I held a different position. Get a grip, dude.

When did I say he posted a great WHIP. I said he was worth what Ottavino got, this year- $8M. Did most people want Ottavino to close over Barnes- weaknesses and all? I was not happy with Barnes as our closer. Not happy at all. His BB/9 was pathetic, but he was still worth $8M a year, IMO. That's all I'm saying. Stop inventing positions I don't hold. Of course this season is way better than any season he's ever had. He did have one other comparable half season, but that didn't make him this great- not even close. Of course they signed him, because of 2021. I never said otherwise. I just said, I'd have extended him to $8M x 2 before 2021 started. That position has nothing to do with comparing 2021to pre-2021. While his ERA+ from 2017-2020 was not even close to 2021, it was very very respectable and worthy of a nice contract. 118 121 129 112 (2020 short season) 179 (This year, so far) 127 combined from 2017-2020. Not "elite" for sure, but pretty damn decent.

Come on old-timer. I'm not the one throwing wrong positions in other's faces like iortiz has been doing. My position was not negative. I love Duran and trusted Bloom knew when he was ready and would play enough. Some wanted him called up a month or more ago, before Bloom thought the time was right. Taking victory laps over wrong positions and then saying most wanted him called up next year deserves being called out as wrong. You nailed the timing of the call up dead on. Kudos to you. iortiz and others wanted him called up long ago. They were not right. Some may have guessed he would not be called up until August or September, but they weren't bashing Duran. I took the "easy" position of saying he's ready when Bloom says he is. I'm not claiming victory, nor should I. I'm not the one lying about people's positions.

Who was "bashing" Duran? When? Find one "bashing" quote- just one. The only "negativity," if you want to call it that concerned his defense, lack of experience or his recently changed approach at the plate that might need more time. Nobody bashed Duran- not even Ghost, and he bashes every Sox player.

That's a blatant lie. Find one quote where I said don't call him up this year. (Plus, I don't think anyone else said that either. Zero while you are saying "most.") I never said we should not call him up. My position has been 100% consistent- "Call him up when Bloom thinks he's ready and can play enough."

I'd have extended him before 2021 started. He earned about $8M a year before these last 3 months. Ottavino was being paid $8M,and I wanted Barnes to close over Ottavino from day one. No doubt, these past 3 months are elite- something he only did one other time in his career. I was merely pointing out this isn't the only elite 3 months he's had, which was one of your supporting point. Barnes has been a very good RP'er since 2017. Even his 2020 OPS against was pretty close to his last few years. If he reverts back to the 2017-2020 Barnes, the deal is a break even deal, IMO. Not great- not bad.

I , for one, am thrilled Duran's ML career begins tomorrow. He gives us a lot of upside potential I'm not seeing in Santana, Chavis and Marwin. I think we can work out some sort of resting rotation whereby Duran can play 7-9 games out of10 without forcing anyone but maybe Dalbec to play less than 8-9 games out of 10. 8-9 out of 10: Renfroe, Verdugo & Kike 7-9 out of 10: Arroyo & Duran 6-7 out of 10: Dalbec

"Most people?" Almost everyone felt he'd at least be called up in September. Many, like myself, never named a date or claimed he was ready or not ready. No way "most people thought he wasn’t going to be be called up this year." You're trippin'.

I realize my opinion was "easy," but I never pretended to know more than Bloom. I trusted he knew better. I really like Duran. I was hoping all along Bloom thought he was ready. It wasn't like I was hoping he didnt think he was ready or personally felt he was not ready, even now. I wasn't "right" or "wrong." Some wanted him making the opening day roster after a nice spring. Some wanted him called up in April, May or June. How are these people right? They took a firmer position than I did, for sure, but they weren't any more right than I and other were.