moonslav59

I used ERA+ to counter your ERA claim. It doesn’t mean I like it more than OPS against. I tried to use what you respect to counter your claims. Answer this; is an ERA + of 127 very good or not? Is an OPS against of .680 very good or not. If you say no, then the debate is over. We just have different views on what “very good” means, which is fine. If you say yes, then there is some evidence that shows he has been very good from 2017-2020 combined. Yes, there is some evidence that shows he may be just “good.” Hardly any evidence shows he was average except those based on BBs.

I’m dense for taking you at your word? Also, nobody bashed Nick. Going from everybody to most is still 100% wrong. It was not most, and name-calling does not help your case.

Yes, but what I meant was not a Verdugo - Duran platoon but this: Vs RHP Verdugo in LF Duran/ Kike in CF Arroyo/ Kike 2B Kike/ Dalbec 1B Vs LHP Kike plays OF (Duran or Verdugo sits) Arroyo 2B Dalbec 1B

Some expected a September call-up, when service time does not count, but nobody said 2022. NOBODY

Can you stop saying everybody when it was clearly nobody? You can't even provide one example, so until you can or do, stop lumping everybody as Nick bashers. Yes, posters told Nick some reasons why Bloom may not feel he's ready, but nobody said "He should not be called up, now." Max came pretty close, but he never bashed Nick or you.

When someone says this guy or that guy needs to be called up now, and the player isn't called up until weeks or months later, they cannot claim they were right. It's really that simple. Some posters wanted Duran on the opening day roster after a nice ST'ing. I remember someone wanting him called up in April and early May, until they were told, he had not been playingdue to AAA not starting their season until early May. Mixed in with all the Cordero and Santana bashing from April to early June were calls to call up Duran. "What do we have to lose?" "How can he do any worse than _____?" (Cordero, Santana and even Renfroe after his poor April) "What is Bloom waiting for? Were in a playoff race!" All of these statements are indirectly saying they disagree with Bloom's decision on when to call up Duran. They show the poster thinks he knows more than Bloom on this issue. There was talk about waiting until his years of team control date arrived. He wasn't called up after that, and that was long before late June. There was talk of him being ready but the Olympics were holding him back. That was before and into late June. Then, we found out he wasn't being made available to the Olympics, and still he was not immediately called up. notin is right, there is no way anyone knows precisely when Bloom felt Duran was ML ready. It could have been long ago, and he was held back for other reasons. It could have been precisely July 15th.

Nick, the feeling is mutual. We both love this team and want the best for every player.

People were saying he needs to be called up way before late June and you were front and center. You keep moving the goalposts.

The deadline is July 30th, this year. 4 pm. Before any games start.

Well said. It's time to start taking no prisoners. The next 15 days will help Bloom decide what needs fixing. I'm sure already has his sights on a few slots. He, opefull, just took care of two slots, today.

If 2021 Barnes is just "very good" then our disagreement is over terminology not stats. Opponents have a .518 OPS Against Barnes, this year. That is borderline Koji great.

You start saying that ERA is not a good stat for relievers but in the very next paragraph you point out that his ERA+ was very good. You are a mass of contradictions lol Do you know what ERA+ even is? One reason I don't like ERA for any pitcher is that it does not factor in park factors as well as others (like team defense). ERA+ does just that. It is way more accurate than just plain ERA. Another other reason I don't like ERA is that RP'ers often come in with 1-2 outs, so their ERA will be skewed in those games. I provided ERA+ numbers to show his ERA was not as bad as it looked. It was your stat of choice, so I countered your point with a similar stat. Before 2021 his standard and advanced stats weren't very good as you are suggesting. I gave you the numbers of several highly regarded stats, and his ranking among the top 200 RP'ers from 2017-2020 was very good in many of the stats and so-so in a couple others, like WHIP. Did you bother to look at the numbers? If you want o evaluate a RP you have to see his run prevention estimators, because in the end you want to hold and/or minimize the damage when a RP comes in. Yes, OPS against is proven to be one of the best run prevention stats available. Barnes had very good OPS Against numbers from 2017-2020. Are you saying those numbers are wrong or don't relate well to run prevention? The fac is Barnes was one of the top set up men in MLB from 2017-2020 combined. If you don't think that means "very good," I'm not sure what else I can say. His SIERA last year which considers balls in play was 4, very close to his ERA. His 2020 xFIP which normalizes HRs was 4 as well. His FIP? almost 5. His peripherals weren't good as well. 2020 was shortened season. If that's all you are going by, then you have a point. Most GMs do not go by a pitchers most recent 23 IP alone. Even in 2020, his OPS Against was .705, and that was his worst from 2017-2020. Most of teh time he was near or under .680, which is very good, right? In my book before 2021 Matt Barnes has been an average to just above average RP at best. Never very good as you are suggesting. Now, it's "never very good?" He was clearly very good from 2017-2019. Three years of 65+ IP very good set-up pitching. BTW, I never said he was elite pre-2021, just very good from 2017-2020.Maybe we disagree on what very good means. He clearly was much better than average. Is .680 very good, or not? How about .660? .650? Here are his OPS Against numbers since 2017 .655 Very Good .624 Fantastic .666 Very Good .706 Okay (2020 40% season) Broken down by half seasons: .629 Fantastic .688 Good .509 Spectacular .844 Bad .607 Good .639 Very Good .706 Okay (2020) In the playoffs: 0.87 ERA (Your stat of choice not mine- and "clutch") 1.161 WHIP You seriously think he was "never very good?"

Arroyo has never played 1B. Kike has. Arroyo looks much better defensively at 2B than last year and when compared to Kike. I think Kike will play 1B 4-5 games out of 10, 2B 1-2 games out of 10 and CF 1-2 games out of 10. All together, he plays nearly FT (8-9 games out of 10). Kike has 89 career innings played at 1B. I have no idea how good he is on defense, there. He's looked great on defense in CF, especially of late. I hate moving him out of CF, but I can't see us playing Duran in LF and benching or limiting playing time for Verdugo or Renfroe. Verdugo has shown signs he may best be used in a platoon, so maybe Duran plays LF vs LHPs and some CF vs RHPs, and Kike can play CF more than just 1-2 games out of 10.

The "what to we have to lose" philosophy reeks of desperation. We did not call Duran up for that reason. Yes, the failures of Cordero, Santana and others may have hurried up his call-up, but I sincerely do not think Bloom would call up Duran until he felt he was ML ready- good enough on defense not to outweigh his expected plus offense AND that he would play at least 7-8 games out of 10. Nobody knows if this is how Bloom viewed it or what the final straw was to finally call Duran up. Maybe he was fine with calling him up 1-2 months ago, but felt someone else needed a long look, of that he would not play enough games to stay sharp and continue his growth as a full-rounder player. Anyone pretending to know is doing just that: pretending. The kid is up, now. I don't think anyone is not happy about that. I showed a way he can play 7-9 games out of 10 without benching anyone or severely limiting anyone's time, except maybe Dalbec. It would look something like this: Approximate games played out of every 10 5 Position Matrix 9 Renfroe RF (sits one vs RHP) 8-9 Verdugo LF (sits 1-2 vs LHP) 8-9 Kike 1B/2B/CF (sits 1-2 vs any) 8-9 Arroyo 2B (sits 2-3 vs any) 8-9 Duran CF/LF (sits 2-3 vs any) 6-7 Dalbec 1B (sits vs RHP) I think the fact that Cora could have done this same rotation a month ago is possible evidence supporting the idea that Bloom did not think Duran was ML ready 3-8 weeks ago. This is just conjecture, but I do think Duran was called up exactly when Bloom felt he was ML ready. That date is July 15, 2021.

Almost all your points are just plain wrong. Only OT got it right. (I won't say I did because I never made a prediction on when he'd be called up.) You said he should be called up over a month ago- maybe longer. You were just as wrong as the rest who said September. Nobody said 2022. You need to show proof even one did to support that untruthful claim.

No doubt. I'm not projecting .800 going forward, but I still think it's possible. My optimism is not growing.

A 1.25 WHIP is not that great at lower levels. The .627 OPS Against is.

Maybe I'm too high on T Reed, German and Ort. Could be I'd love to see one succeed and further stick it to the Yanks.

Who would you list as borderline or surprise players?

Oh, the sarcasm hour glass.

Can you find just one?

That's deep.

He missed a good chunk of time, too.

True nuff. He'll be protected from Rule 5, for sure, though.

My guess is Bloom had identified the most likely players not to make next year's 40 man roster, including Rule 5 eligible players likely needing to be protected. Looking at 2022's roster: Free Agents (may extend or re-sign one or some): ERod Ottavino Marwin Santana Workman Team Options Andriese- likely bye-bye Richards- likely bye-bye Perez- likely keep Vaz- keep Opt out? JD Martinez Borderline keep, Traded or DFA'd? Brice Chavis Arauz Potts Wilson Rios Groome Rosario Plawecki or Wong? That's a lot of slots opening up or potentially opening up. I see about 12-15 of these guys gone, so maybe we trade some of them, before we lose them for nothing- assuming the ones I'm talking about have trade value. If we add 4-6 free agents, we might be down to 6-10 slots for Rule 5 and borderline players listed above. Rule 5: Jecorrah Arnold Brayan Bello Cole Brannen Gary Calvo Marco Cardoso Pedro Castellanos Felix Cepeda Kole Cottam Kutter Crawford Ricardo Cubillan Osvaldo De La Rosa Tyler Dearden Jonathan Diaz Danny Diaz Jeter Downs Jarren Duran- Already added Tyler Esplin Durbin Feltman Ryan Fernandez Ryan Fitzgerald Antoni Flores Frank German Rio Gomez Devlin Granberg Gilberto Jimenez Jose Larez Dominic LoBrutto Bryan Lucas Charlie Madden Alan Marrero Elih Marrero Joan Martinez Alexander Montero Oddanier Mosqueda Brendan Nail Brett Netzer Tanner Nishioka Kaleb Ort Yusniel Padron-Artiles Aaron Perry Antonio Police AJ Politi Ceddanne Rafaela Oscar Rangel Tyreque Reed Jesus Rosillo Yasel Santana Zach Schellinger Alex Scherff John Schreiber Gregori Segovia Chase Shugart Miguel Suero Jake Thompson Thaddeus Ward Grant Williams Josh Winckowski Bloom will not protect all the bolded players, so maybe he trades 1 or 2 of those he feel might be drafted.