moonslav59

Would you talk to either one about changing positions before offering an extension? If not, would you consider moving positions on on one or both after an extension? Also, if you had to move one, which one would it be and where would you move them to?

I get the frustration aspect, but these guys doubled down when questioned and even went deeper off the edge, at times.

I get the differences and the reasons why they are so, but you have to admit, the absurdity levels were off the carts, last night and of late.

IMO, the only ways Bogey stays in Boston beyond 2022 are... 1) He extends before the end of the season. 2) He becomes a FA by opting out and then signs with us as a FA. Quick question, if he opts out, can we offer him a QO? I guess that might be a third was he stays, but I doubt he accepts the QO.

Day off Game Day off Game Game Day off Game Game ' Day off Game Reset Roster 6 Games in 11 days This is not like the regular season where you play 9-10 games every 11 days. The only way even a 12th pitcher is needed would be in a mop up role or an 18 inning game, which is nearly impossible with the new rules in place.

I do think Bogey is a better defensive SS than Jeter, but I think Jeter is the worst long-time defensive SS I've ever seen, so it's not really a feather in XB's cap. Bogey's DRS numbers are shockingly bad.

I don't look at one season UZR/150. They actually warn against doing that. Stroman has only been real good for a pretty short part of his career. (2 years and 3 of his last 4 years played) His best part of his career was 2017-2021, and his WHIP was a pedestrian 1.290. 3.48 ERA (123 ERA+) 3.74 FIP A comp you might like: ERod, before this year (his previous 3 seasons played- both missed 2020): 1.297 WHIP 3.92 ERA (118 ERA+) 3.84 FIP Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have Stroman on the 2022 Sox, and much more so than ERod, but I don't see him as the guy you wait 6 years for to sign large and long. (Yes, 6 years since the Price signing, and look at David's numbers before we signed him!)

Maybe someone needs to remind the pitcher about nobody holding the runner close at 3B. To me, that one was on Cora/coaches and the pitcher/catcher.

It's not about being tough. It's about the sheer absurdity of so many posts. I rarely put anyone on ignore, and only one poster has ever been on ignore for more than a few weeks (and still is.) There is no purpose to the thread for me, when it gets like last night. I joined this site, because I miss the water cooler Sox chatter after moving out of New England, but I never heard chatter like that at any water cooler I went to, while living in Maine. I get the frustration- fueled anger, but it's beyond that on that thread. I don't want to get into a long drawn out discussion on what I think a real fan should be like, but to me, no true Sox fan should ever display that much hate and total disdain to a team they follow. I'm not getting preachy, here. To each his own, but that doesn't mean I have to choose to get near it.

All true, but the point that both SSs had horrific range numbers while being okay at making the routine plays makes them good comps to each other is strong.

Cesar's D has slipped at 2B. I think Stroma will cost to much for his profile. He's not the guy I'd choose to go large and long on, despite our obvious need at the top of our rotation. I'm wondering if we go for an older pitchers, so the years won't be so many.

I've said all along, my only top priority for filling a non pitching role is a solid utility. I'd count Arroyo as one, despite his health concerns. Maybe he can stay off the IL by sitting on the bench much of the year. I've even said, I would not pay to bring back Schwarber, unless we can and will trade JD without paying too much of his salary (maybe pay $3-7M?). I've said upgrading the defense is a top priority of mine, but it's probably too complicated to do, this winter. (I'd kick the tires on Bogey and consider changing positions for Bogey and Devers, but it doesn't seem worth it, right now.) We could go large and sign Semien or Biaz, but that's not my plan, unless we trade Bogey for pitching and or farm help. I'm actually okay with getting slightly worse at the non pitching side of the team (No Schwarber), as long as we make major strides with the staff. I love knowing Houck and Whitlock have many years left with us, but I'm not sure what roles are best for them. As of now, I'd like to see both in the pen, or maybe Whitlock as our 4th starter (Pivetta 5th)and Houck as the closer or top set up man. Even with this, we have 2-3 major holes. The first choice and decision is the QO to ERod, but even if he comes back, we need to replace the holes left by Richards, Perez and Ottavino. It's easy to say "addition by subtraction," but that's a lot of innings to replace from within the system, and many of those innings weren't as bad as we remember. Perez had the best starter numbers on the team after 12-13 starts. Richards filled a big pen need when we needed it. Ottavino had one of the pens best OPS Against number. More innings from Whitlock and Houck should be great, but they are not going to go from 142 combined in 2021 to 400+ in 2020. Here are the innings lost: 158? ERod 137 Richards 114 Perez 62.0 Ottavino 37.1 Andriese 25.0 Robles 20.0 Workman 40+ others That's about 550 innings. Maybe Houck and Whitlock can eat 250 of them, if they both start (140 from 2021+250=390), but we still need a major boost. I'm hoping we add a solid #2 and #4, keep Houck and Whiltock in the pen and add a decent pen piece or two, but no closer spending.

The 4th catcher, even.

Up to age 29: Jeter: -2.4 UZR/150 (21st out of 29) -13 DRS (29th out of 29) Bogey +0.3 UZR/150 (17th out of 32) -55 DRS (32nd out of 32)

Both were dead last or close to it in DRS over almost any sample size period chosen during their careers. Truth or lie?

Jeter had very good hands and an accurate arm. He did well on relay throws, too, but the amount of plays not made by short-ranged SSs is staggering. I find it hard for any Sox fan not to realize by watching our opponent's SS rob our batters of hit after hit after hit, some times multiple times per game, and not think, "Hmmm, how come I only see Bogey do that a couple times a year?" I guess it's sort of like the CERA issue, it's hard to compare apples to oranges. This player plays behind a staff that strikes out more batters, of lets up less ground balls or less difficult ground balls, so how can we know. To me, my eye test came first. I didn't start out thinking certain players had limited range. I noticed it first, then went and looked at the numbers. Have I been wrong? Yes, but most of the time, the numbers back up my observations and the observations of the UZR/150 trained and calibrated people, plus the fielding bible people do, too. The people who do UZR/150 speak of the need for large sample sizes- meaning larger than one to two seasons as being needed, especially for players who play positions where little action occurs (like the OF). Bogey has had some decent UZR/150 seasons, and he's even been plus- some very slightly above zero- for 4 straight years, despite being negative on their range factor every year. For this, I have said I will not argue with anyone saying he is close to "average," but I will argue with anyone saying "above average on defense." He has not only been negative in DRS every season, his overall DRS is rock bottom in nearly any large sample size time frame you can come up with. From the time he became our SS to today, he has the following rankings: UZR/150: 21 out of 41 SSs with 2500 innings at SS since '14. (Average) 19 out of 35 with 3,000+ innings (Slightly Below Average) 34th/35 in Range 18 out of 33 with 3500+ 50th out of 50 in DRS among all SSs with 2,000 innings at SS since '14. Let's look at just the past 4 years- you know, the ones where he's been slightly plus in UZR/150, to see if he has gotten any better... NOPE! 34th out of 34 SS's with 1500 innings since 2018 in DRA at -26. So, maybe average in UZR/150- maybe. Worst in DRS. How is thinking he's below average a poor assessment of his defensive skills? Since when is just making the plays on balls hit within 10 feet of a player all that is expected? Even worse, how is just doing that deserve a better than average on defense label? Please don't confuse my opinion with saying he is an overall below average SS. He is far better than the average, but his defense has to be taken into consideration when considering re-structuring his contract or re-signing him to more than $20M/yr after 2022. I admit, I have a bias towards great plus defenders at SS (and CF, C and somewhat at 3B, RF and 2B.) Bogey is not a plus defender, IMO. If you think he is, I think you are wrong. If you think he's average or slightly below average, I won't argue, but I think he's about 18th at best and maybe 26th at worst- just by the numbers. My observations say bottom third tier (21-30th.)

Bogey is a big net plus and a fan favorite. I've never come close to even hinting he is not either of those. I don't like his defense and think SS defense is a high priority.

The position players are set, if we want them to be, but 3 of our 5 rotation pitchers are FAs. Our closer and top set up guy through June are FAs or named Barnes. Our 2Bman missed 2/3 of the season, which seems to be common. We need a solid utility guy, and we have 4 everyday players that can or will be FAs after 2022 (C, SS, CF, DH) I wouldn't say we are all set and just need some depth and pen additions to improve on 2021.

I'm not wrong. You probably thought Jeter was a a good defender, too. Bogey is the worst at DRS, and has been below average on UZR/150 over larger sample sizes, which is how they recommend that stat be used. I have never shied away from saying a few metrics show he's average, but you choose to ignore all the ones that show he is below average to way below. It's opinion, but I feel very strongly about my position..

If I had assumed he is staying, we'd have heard the opposite response.

Continuing what we did last year involves filling key roles via pick-ups. Yes, we can fill some from within, but we need more than just depth and pen help.

Leaving out the key word "defensive" is pretty important and a gross misrepresentation of some of our views.

I assume everyone who will be a FA or has an obvious opt out as gone. If they come back, I count that as signing a FA.

I know. I should just let go. I doubt I even show up to the game thread, today.

We have to break the pattern. Last night, we out hit them 9-6 and they even committed an error. Walks and key hits by them, and the lack of walks and key hits by us, hard hit outs by us and soft hits by them (not all of them) has been something we seem to fall into for long stretches. We need to break the pattern- starting tonight.