moonslav59

You asked if I thought Houck was the best starter based on stats. I answered as clearly as possible, so you would not take it the wrong way, and whaat do you do? You go all convoluted, again. I never said you said I said Houck was the best starter. I just answered your question. Stop overanalyzing everything and making things up. I did not further inject anything about you saying other starters were babied. That's a lie. I actually said, I'm not going to go look for it, and if I am wrong, "shoot me." If anything, that sounds like I'm backing away and not furtherin it along. I didn't double down on that position, yet you say I "once again inject things that are not there." How did I do that? This is getting comical. You can misinterpret that statement all you want.

Very seldom anymore.

Welcome. Being underdogs can help lessen the pressure and also give the team the attitude that they have something to prove and someone to prove wrong.

I said he had the best starter stats in areas that did not involve innings. I never said he was "the best starter." IMO, Eovaldi was and still is our best starter. If I had to rank them, he might be 3rd behind Nate and Sale. If I went by who I want starting nexy, he's maybe second behind Nate or third behind nate and Pivetta, but probably second. I don't want to overanalyze, though. I'm not looking up where you said Houck was babied. If I got that one wrong, too, shoot me. You've been ranting about babying starters for a while. I'm not understanding why you can't own up to your own opinions, and why you think people voicing their opinions are acting like their opinions are facts. If I disagree with someone, I let them know. You may think I'm judging, but I don't see it that way.

So, now looking at starter wins is not overanalyzing, but showing ERA, WHIP and OPS Against only as a response to you saying "stats anybody." You can keep bashing me for implying "hate" when it was not called for. Apparently you like hearing yourself saying it over and over, but I don't want to be accused of making assumptions or overanalyzing anything you say. You bad- mouthed Houck. Bad mouthing is a word that can be interpreted differently, but to me calling someone inconsistent when they had the best starter numbers on the team is not good. It is bad.

Even starting pitchers that go 4-5 innings are very important. We'll need 5-6 of them. We have 2 and a bunch of maybes.

And Whitlock

Nice job! You actually called the opinion stupid- not the person. First steps are always the hardest. There is hope, yet.

We won a ring every time due to solid and at least 2 deep starting pitching. DD brought us Sale, Price and Porcello. Just because we squeaked into the playoffs by one game, advanced in a wild card game and out-pitched the Rays in 3 of 4 games, does not make SP'ers less valuable. We need at least one solid SP'er (a #2 at worst), and I'm counting on Eovaldi and Sale to be solid, next year. One or both may not be.

I apologized for saying all your Cora bashing meant the same as hating, but you can't let go. I can keep apologizing, but it won't help. If having the best stats of any Sox starter is "inconsistent", then yes, that is bashing, IMO. Not overanalyzing, not exaggerating and not lying. It's an opinion, and I stand by my opinion- to "balance you out"- LOL. You did criticize me for slotting Houck as next year's closer. That's another example of you not thinking Houck is as good as most do. Since "mistakes" by managers in MLB are highly subjective, a statement like the one I made about Cora is an opinion not a fact. It's not overanalyzing, so you can drop that nonsense. "People like you" -nice one.

I agree, Bloom will bring in 75,000 Robles, Davis, Workman, Rios, Feliz, Gonsalves and Brice types, again, this year, but you know, we just barely made the playoffs and losing one or two games as we trial-and-error it for months might nnot work out so well in 2022. We used 33 pitchers in relief, this year and 37 overall. That's a stunning number, especially when you figure 29 of them got 3 or more IP. 21 pitchers got 12+ IP. 17 got 24+ One important priority of Bloom, last summer and winter was to build 40 man roster and beyond depth. While he must still look to improve and build up that area, it is no longer such a high priority, IMO. We will also be adding 5-6 Rule 5 protectess to the 40 man, so that will lessen his need to add scrubs in hopes a few stick. We should have about the same winter spending budget, but only 3-4 slots to fill instead of 10: CF/2B Kike RF Renfroe SP Richards SP Perez P Whitlock RP Ottavino RP Sawamura RP Andriese UT Marwin UT Santana

I think a trade for a starter makes a lot of sense. Lower salary. I do think Scherzer is on the table, because he is 37. The term length shorter. I hate spending on RP'ers- too hit and miss. I also hate signing 4/5 starters like Perez and Richards, last winter, but I could make a long list of failed tries. Only a very few work out. IMO, we only have 3-4 holes to fill not 10, like last winter, so we can afford to go large for at least one slot. I'd rather that be a starter than a closer (Iglesias?) Trading for one and signing another or bringing back ERod would set us up nicely.

The one year risk is a big plus for the Sox and allows ERod a chance to reset his value. Win-win. If he says no, we get a comp pick and have his $18.6M to spend on another pitcher.

They aren't even letting Big Nate see the third timers.

Nick, I never counted them out. I think Houck would be a very good closer, and we have an opening there. I have said Whitlock projects better as a SP'er and I offered two scenarios: one with Houck and Whitlock in the pen and one with Whitlock as a starter. Why are you misrepresenting my position? If it were up to me, and I had $40M to spend, I'd spend it on SP'ing- either $30M on someone like Scherzer + $10M on a #4 starter type, and begin the season with Houck and Whitlock in the pen, but in no way am I locked into that idea. I might try to spend $20M + $20M on 2 solid SP'ers. We might end up with $25M on a SP'er, $10M on a 4th starter and $5M on a RP'er. Who knows? I cn certainly see the value of starting Houck and Whitlock, next year, but then we have a mess of pen openings, including closer, and signing RP'ers is so hit or miss, I'm not liking that idea. Remember, Bloom signed Richards, Perez, Andriese and Sawamura with mid-ranged deals. Would you say he did well, there? Do you want him doing that again, but with just RP'ers?

Hence the winter need for rotation help. With just about all starters being yanked after the second time through a line-up having tow long men like Houck and Whitlock is an ideal situation. I know starters cost more than RP'er but I think there is a better risk to reward chance with signing solid starters over RP'ers.

I'd put Whitlock, Renfroe, Iggy, Shaw, Robles and Davis all above Sawamura as good Bloom additions since 2020's season end. Pivetta and Arroyo stand out among those acquired during 2020.

I said bad-mouthing not "seriously bad mothing," and it goes beyond just the "inconsistent" comment. He doesn't even trust him in a relief role, next year. It's not just about starting. He's implying he was removed as a SP'er because he wasn't good enough and because he was babied. Of course, there are doubts about any pitcher, next year, but this is who he singles out.

Not just good, but team leading in every starter category, except longevity.

You are bad mouthing him. I want him as our closer, next year. I'm not sure he would be better as a SP'er, but he'd be better than Perez, Richards and Pivetta (maybe ERod, too). Wanting him as a closer is not bad mouthing him. If you can't see who is bad mouthing him, look in a mirror. Is this what you call "good mouthing?" ...He was inconsistent as a starter this year... (implying that's why he was removed from the rotation)

People are taken out of the rotation for a number of reasons, some of which might be because he was greatly needed in the pen, an injury, a plan to limit IP'd, a returning SP'er or because his profile projects better as a RP'er, at this moment in his career. I am pretty sure the plan was never to have him start 32 games, or even 22. We knew Sale was out, and ERod was given his first start a little late. Houck had 2 starts in April: 5.0 IP 2 ER 4.1 IP 3 ER He then went on the IL and missed about 3 months. That might be why he missed some starts, too. Upon his retrun, he pitched one 3 inning relief game and went back into the rotation when Perez and Richards were imploding. In 10 starts, he had a 3.86 ERA/.641 OPS Against, despite a .321 BAbip. He wasn't yanked because he was doing poorly as a starter. He was yanked because Sale was back and the pen needed help, desperately. Just because he's done much better as a RP'er, doesn't mean he sucked as a starter. "Stats anybody..." SP Numbers: 3.68/1.125 (.627 OIPS Against) Career as SP: 2.97/1.070 (.591) SOX 2021 Leaders as SP ONLY (10+ starts) 3.68 Houck 3.75 Eovaldi 4.56 Pivetta 4.77 ERod 4.77 Perez 5.22 Richards WHIP 1.125 Houck 1.190 Eovaldi 1.312 Pivetta 1.398 ERod 1.520 Perez 1.650 Richards OPS Against .627 Houck .696 Eovaldi .735 Pivetta .769 ERod .844 Perez .868 Richards Pick on Richards or Perez, if you need a punching bag.

I just don't get why anyone, especially now, in the thick of a playoff run, would bad mouth Houck. The kid missed some time, but has been an incredible asset down the stretch and in the post season. Sure, the guy only has 86 innings in the bigs, but our system finally produces a pitcher that comes out of the gates doing well, and he's maligned. 2.93 ERA 1.081 WHIP 3.6 K/BB .579 OPS Against with a .294 BAbip is pretty damn decent. Man, some of you guys are real tough on our players- even the good ones.

The union might warm up to the idea if they tie in raising the floor on low-spending teams significantly. The union might be looking at ways to better the situation for the vast majority of its players rather than the few dozen biggest contract players.

If all you want is Schwarber and some under the radar pen arms, we can get 2 Schwarbers. We are so far away in what the highest need area is for this team, I’m not sure it’s worth going back and forth, anymore. I’m fine with giving Seabold a shot and more innings to Houck and Whitlock, but we still have a giant need on the staff. Like 2-3 pitchers short with one or two needing to be solid. Look, I really like Schwarber. I’ve been one of JDs biggest supporters and I’d still prefer KS to JD. after arb raises, we’ll be lucky Henry gives Bloom $40M to spend. I doubt it’s that much, and if he tries to go quantity over quality, again, it will bring us guys like Richards, Perez, Ottavino and Andries. If you think that helps us get better, I’m stunned. Bringing ERod back might not even break even with the 2021 ERod and may cost half the winter budget. People think Ottavino sucked, but he was good much more than bad and won’t be easy to replace. Maybe we can trade for a cost effective pitcher, but there goes the farm or Bogey. You know I trust Bloom, but we have a lot to do this winter and taking the luxury to double up on DHs, and yes, these guys are best used as DHs is not coming close to filling our greatest need areas. It’s my philosophy to build up your weakest link and not to spend on someone that forces another very good player to the bench. Sign KS and trade JD, Dalbec or an OFer is the only way I see it being practical.

I hope we can bring Robles back.