moonslav59

Would you be happy if we sign Suzuki and McHugh?

I guess it’s a matter of perspective. Our biggest signings were a career bench guy in Kike and Garrett Richards and almost everyone on 1 year deals. Last winters deals screamed of rebuild at the ML level and most fans and media agreed. The fact that we did so well does not change the early perceptions. IMO

Biggest names left that could help the Sox the most: RP: K Jensen C McHugh R Tepera A Chafin, R Rodriguez, B Hand, E Marshal, T Rosnethal, A Ottavino, T Clippard A Bradley, J Nelson, C Martin, T Watson, T Hunter, R Dolis, G Holland SP: Z Greinke T Anderson M Pineda, D Duffy, J Cueto, B Anderson, M Harvey, M Boyd 2B: nobody OF: N Castellanos RHB S Suzuki RHB Schwarber LHB Tommy Pham RHB Jorge Soler RHB A McCutchen RHB Kevin Pillar RHB SS (Bogey to 2B?): Correa or Story DH (Trade JD?): Nelson Cruz

There are only 10 players on the 40 man roster who were on the 40 man roster during the 2019 season (listed in order of 40 man roster seniority): Vaz since 11/12 Bogey 8/13 Barnes 9/14 Sale 12/16 Devers 7/17 JD 2/18 Brasier 7/18 Eovaldi 7/18 Taylor 11/18 DHern 11/18 Only 6 were on the 40 man to begin the 2018 season. Dalbec & Arauz were added after 2019 Some pretty major overhaul, here. 27 players were added after January 1, 2020! 21 were added after Sept 14, 2020. 13 were added after 2/1/21. 8 have been added after the 2021 season and we still have 1 slot open. (Some were in the system but not on the 40 man roster until these dates.)

Familia to Phillies for$6M/1. Niko Goodman to Astros. Alex Colome to Rockies.

Tomato stains are hard to get out!

My wife thinks I need a check-up.

Wow, Joe Kelly gets $17M/2. No wonder the owners trued so hard to protect themselves from each other.

True. My mind has been mush.

Montas has 2 years to Bassitt and Manea's one. He's better, too.

I'm pretty certain we add a RH'd OF bat, even if it's not Suzuki. There is talk of JD Davis. I sure hope plan B is not Duran in LF, JBJ in CF and Verdugo in RF, but is it could be the emergency fallback plan.

A Flurry of action... Kikuchi signs with Jays ($36M/3) Cishek signs with Nats ($1.75M/1) KSuzuki back to Angels ($1.75M/1) R Chirinos about to sign with O's. Trades: Chris Bassitt to NYM/ JT Dinn & Adam Oller to OAK Isiah Kiner-Falefa to MN/ Mitch Garver to TEX

It's very sticky.

I disagree. JBJ starts vs RHPs (about 65% of games). Kike plays 2B vs RHPs and CF vs LHPs. (I'm hoping you are right, but Arroyo needs to stay healthy and play well to start over JBJ.)

You keep saying expectations were high for 2019, so it doesn't count. Well, expectations were low for 2022, but somehow those expectations don't matter? To me, the "rebuild" or whatever you want to call it, started when the team underperformed in 2019 and ended at the trade deadline (we added) in 2022- 2 calendar years.

You are the one saying the word. Nobody said 2020 was the only year of futility under Henry's watch. There was equally extreme words used back when Ben was the GM. Yes, many of us expected "it" to last for more than half of 2019 and up to the point where the team surprised nearly everyone in 2021. Look, I'm fine with admitting 1.5 years is not a "cliff," there I said it, and I did expect it to last much longer. I also did not expect it to start during the 2019 season, so I was wrong on many fronts, including never expecting our playing roster to ever look as bad as it did in 2020. I had low hopes for 2022, and was wrong there, too. I have praised DD for drafting better than expected for the slots he had to pick with, but the highest pick the Sox have ever had gave the farm a big boost, too. I'm not sure anyone foresaw us having 2 top 30 prospects (3 if you want to count Yorke), this quickly. I applaud DD and Bloom for their work on the farm. Our 40 man roster is much deeper than it was in 2020, and hardly any is due to free agency, as we've mostly seen just 1 year deals of low to moderate value. I'm fine with saying the cliff never materialized as most of us envisioned. Not even close, except for just how bad we got- maybe.

I didn't say it. I admitted the time frame for the rebuild or whatever you want to call it was much shorter than I expected, but 2020 was much worse than I thought it would ever get. The term "rebuild" was an understatement for 2020. And, yes, rebuilding is an ongoing process, and one could view needing to fill 5-7 slots, like this winter, as within the "norm" and not still part of the rebuild to favorite or near favorite status. I'm fine with thinking the rebuild is over.

I would not disagree, but take it one more step. Who plays LF/RF? Which is a better D? 2B Kike, CF JBJ and Duran LF/Verdugo RF or 2B Arroyo, CF Kike and Verdugo LF/JBJ RF? Plus, it's not like Arroyo is a bad defender, when healthy.

The rebuild began in 2019, despite pre-season promise. We made several trades that summer. Are you denying it began, then? 2020 was a cluster F. If you want to count preseason promise, then count it for 2021, too. That was also a clear "rebuild year" that worked out much better than almost anyone expected. Even this winter could be viewed as a final or near final step of completing the rebuild, which happened much more quickly than I expected. I've admitted my timetable was way off. I felt like the system was stacked against rebuilding a farm, this quickly with all the poor draft picks and limited Int'l FA bonus pools we've had in the past 3-5 years (well, pre 2021 draft) and the limited budget Bloom was expected to be given. Last year, we had 8-10 major holes to fill on the 26 man roster. This year, it's maybe 5-7. This may be viewed as not enough to be called a rebuild, but it's still a significant amount of slots to be filled and again, with apparent limited funding. How can anyone look at the 2020 roster- top to bottom and think there was no rebuild needed? No "C" in place?

I've shared my concerns on Bloom's past signings, too. It's hard to sugar coat the list. Then, if you add trades that brought back salary, what little sweetness was there gets overpowered by concern or bitterness. I asked a question on another thread that I feel hits home: name one big FA signing, this winter, that you wish Bloom had made. To me, every big signing has been a big overpay and would have severely limited filling out other big holes in our roster. Again, we have less holes, this winter, than last winter, but we still had enough that spending large on one likely takes away from the others, significantly. I'm not happy with his signings, so far. Just about everyone knows my opinion on the JBJ trade, but I wasn't happy with Richards, Perez and Marwin, last year and questioned the dollar amount spent on Kike and Ottavino (via trade). It all worked out, last season, thanks in large part to guys like Kike, Renfroe, Whitlock and the mid season additions. I'm cutting Bloom a lot of slack due to the fact that he was handed a very shallow roster and farm with precious few dollars to improve the team, and we quickly jumped back to competitiveness much sooner than I expected. Here's a list of Bloom's biggest FA signings, to date: 2020-2022 $14M/2 Kike $10M/1 Richards $10M/1 or $19M/2 or $32M/3 Paxton $7M/1 Wacha $6M/1 Perez '20 $5M/1 Perez '21 $5M/1 R Hill $4.3M/1 Pillar $3.1M/1 + arb Renfroe $3M/1 Moreland $3M/1 Marwin $3M/1 Peraza $3M/2 Sawamura $2.1M/1 + arb Andriese Extensions & Team Options Taken: $145M/5 Sale ('20-'24) $120M/6 Bogey ('20-'25) $19M/2 Barnes ('22-'24) $7M/1 Vaz Trades for Large Contracts (remaining salary/yrs): $21.5M/2 JBJ (with 2 Binales & Hamilton) $8.9M/1 Ottavino (with Frank German) I'm not sure anyone can look at this spending and feel great about it, but the fact is, Bloom has built up the 40 man roster and farm to very respectable positions. If you look at the players that saw playing time in 2020, it's hard to fault Bloom too harshly for this one area. 2020- only a 60 game season! Rank in PAs on 2020 team 7 Chavis 8 Pillar 9 Peraza 10 Dalbec 11 Plawecki 12 Arauz 13 Moreland 14 T-W Lin 17 Munoz 18 Puello (Less than 10 PAs): Grullon, Lucroy Rank in IP 1. Perez 3. Weber 4. Valdez 5. Mazza 6. Godley 7. Brewer 8. Brasier 10. Springs 11. Brice 13. Osich 14. Covey 15. Kickham 16. Stock 17. Walden 18. Hart 20. Hembree 21. Hall 23. Triggs (Under 5 IP): Lever, Tapia That's like 25-30 scrubs that filled up the bottom 20 slots or so on the 40 man roster. Respectable players numbered 8-12. Devers, Bogey, JD, Beni, Verdugo, JBJ, Eovaldi and Barnes Moreland, Dalbec, Houck, Brasier (Sale on IL) We've come a long way, and not just on the 40 man!

With Suzuki, it will happen more often, for sure, and it's not like Kike is bad at 2B, but to me, he's such a big plus on D in CF, we should go out of our way to play him there as much as possible.

He's a bit of a gamble, but I like his outlook. I just hope it doesn't push Kike to 2B FT.

Me, too. Now, of all the biggest signings, so far, which is the one that comes closest to the one you'd take, if you had to?

It seems to me, and I could be wrong, is that your position has been more like I'll believe it when I see Bloom spend big and not a second before. I'm in agreement on not spending big on a SS. I had hoped we got better pitching and maybe a 2Bman, but getting Suzuki and McHugh might be good enough.

That's an absurd amount. Can anyone look at any of the biggest signings, this winter and say, I wish we had paid that much or more for that major signing? Is Bloom being cheap or just smart?