moonslav59

Agreed. By the deadline, they realized the window had slammed shut and no deadline moves adding salary were made. The window closed at the deadline on 2019. The cliff started in 2020. We can haggle over it being over or not, right now, but the effects were real. The most stark evidence is looking at who we brought up from the farm since devers in mid 2017: The most notable names: Houck Dalbec Duran That's 5 and half years! The cliff was predictable and occured.

I didn't think the 2022 team was a last place team. I thought we'd be on the upswing after the 2020 "cliff" bottomed out. I thought 2021 might be a cliff, too, but the surprise maybe got my hopes up too high on '22. I would not consider 2023 to part of the cliff, but not being a top competitor can be explained by rebounding from it.

Yes, or any resources you use should only be used, if they help the team in 2024 and beyond, emphasis on beyond. If the idea is to wait for Mayer, then we may just add a 1 year SS or slide Kike there and add another OF to the winder wish list. Recent grads and MLB ready or near ready Sox players: C Wong, RHern (Nathan in 2025?) 1B Casas (Jordan/Kavadas in 2025?) 2B E Valdez (DH), Yorke 3B Binelas (Jordan 1B in '25? Paulino in '25?) SS Mayer, Lugo, Rafaela, Downs, Bonaci (Romero & Coffey in '26?) OF Rafaela, Abreu, Duran (Paulino in '25 and Bleis & Anthony in '26) P Bello, Crawford, Winckowski, Mata, Walter, TWard, Kelly, German, Murphy, Seabold (Wikelman & others in '25 and Perales & others in '26)

There is budget spade to make 10 Ottavino type trades, in theory. One and done contracts that bring youth hopes attached. That won't be what we do, but one or two trades like that make sense, to me. I do think we can make one big splash signing like Correa. It will help lessen the blow of losing Bogey and keep hopes for 2023 high enough to not see a big drop in attention by fans. He's young enough to still be a plus from 2024-2026 or longer. There is no QO attached. The one downside is Mayer may be ready by 2024 at min salary, but if 2024 is the start of the window, we can trade him for a key piece or trade Story or Correa, if possible.

If top management views the start of the window as 2024, which makes sense, if you X out the fan reactions to 2023 being a 4th rebuild year in a row, it would make sense to only make trades that help more in 2024 and beyond than 2023. Only make signings that are 1 year long or younger players like Correa.

Sometimes I wonder if his disdain for Kike started when I said he had the best defensive season by any Sox CF'er since the early 70's. That really pissed him off. (I walked that statement back to say "one of the best," while recognizing Lynn, JBJ and Crisp for having great defensive seasons, too.) While I think Kike is a plus at 2B and maybe at SS, too, I think CF is his best position on defense.

I agree. The age and the D differential at a key defensive position makes them a tough comp. Bogey's D did improve, while Correa's decline, in 2022. What were their no shift defensive numbers?

These teams with deep farms and 40 man rosters might be ripe for poaching. We would need to be willing to give up quality prospects not yet at the Rule 5 mark. I've always wanted Fairbanks, but maybe a guy like Margot is more likely. BTV accepted Houck & Romero for Fairbanks & Margot. (2- 40 man roster players for one-Houck) Also, Yorke, Wikelman, Walter and Murphy for the same 2 (none need to be on 40, except Walter, who is Rule 5.)

I think JH would stay over, too, if our window ever lasted 3 years. In our 3 year window from 2016-2018, we were only over in 2018 (and 2019, too.)

There should be several opportunities to take on salary from other teams looking to make budget cuts or to improve their budget spending by shedding dead money or likely dead money. The big plus for the Sox would be that the team would have to fork over another, younger and better player as a reward for helping them shed salary- kinda like Ottavino & German for basically nothing. One scenario might be to take on a big contract player that still has some hopes of doing well in 2023. Here are a few teams and players with their BTV numbers: Marlins: -33 A Garcia (RF) -21 Soler (LF- Dugo to RF) Brewers: -126 Yelich (CF) Diamondbacks: -36 Marte (2B/OF) -33 Bumgarner (SP) -7 Melancon (RP) -6 Ahmed (SS) Royals -17 Dozier (1B) Tigers -32 Baez (SS/2B) -29 ERod (SP) Twins -7 Dobnak (SP) -5 Maeda (SP) Nats -138 Strasburg -54 Corbin Reds -22 Moustakas White Sox -13 Moncada (2B/3B/DH) -12 Grandal © -10 Garcia (UT) -5 Lynn (SP) Cardinals: -12 Matz (SP) Braves: -9 Rosario (LF) -5 Morton (SP) Cubs -21 Suzuki (RF) -11 Stroman (SP) -10 Hendricks (SP) Rockies -109 Bryant (3B/LF) -32 Freeland (SP) -14 Blackmon (OF) -12 Diaz © -5 Grichuk (LF) Giants: -8 DeSclafani (SP) Mariners: -20 White (1B) +2 Winker (OF) Phillies: -64 Castellanos (DH/OF) -9 Kingery Mets: -9 Carrasco Yanks -21 Donaldson (3B/DH) -21 Hicks (OF)

Thank you for your generous contribution to a worthy cause. Does our $25 depend on Red giving rare specifics?

Indeed. That's why I mentioned SEA. Most likely, we end up with 2 WC from the ALE and 1 from the ALW. That means 3 of 5 ALE teams might make the playoffs- the same number as 2022, so the schedule won't really help any one ALE team over another, in theory. If, for some reason, SEA struggles, it may help a 4th ALE team squeak in.

Won't open. Why not tell us the suggested trade?

For those who would trade the farm away, here is one for you... BTV accepted this trade as a moderate overpay by the Sox: Rafaela, Yorke, Wikelman and Jordan to MIA for 6 years of Garrett and 3 years of Berti This was accepted, too: Mayer, Houck, Walter and Seabold to PIT for Reynolds and Bednar Sign: Correa, Nate and Fulmer Here you go: C: McGuire/Wong 1B: Casas/Dalbec or Hosmer 2B: Story 3B: Devers SS: Correa LF: Berti CF: Kike RF: Reynolds DH: Dugo/ Hosmer or Dalbec IF: Arroyo OF Refsnyder SP1 Sale SP2 Garrett SP3 Eovaldi SP4 Bello SP5 Pivetta SP6 Paxton/Crawford/Winckowski/Mata Closer Bednar RP2 Whitlock RP3 Fulmer RP4 Schreiber RP5 Barnes RP6 Taylor/Brasier/Reed RP7 Kelly/German/Ort (Note: I would not do this.)

I'm okay with Kike at SS, 2B or CF, but to me, he's best in CF and is an excellent defensive CF'er. I'm not sure why we would move him around to make someone else fit in. I like Nimmo, a lot, but we'd still need a RF'er. Let's just get a SS and RF'er and keep Kike in CF.

I think it will be Dugo-Kike-Gallo. I’d like to see Dugo-Kike-Berti with a SPer combined in the trade.

Maybe, but I heard the same after the wink wink AGon signing.

Then, when we name names, and they suck, he never lets us forget it. I could have said, we need to sign a top 2Bman, last winter and been 100% correct. Almost everyone thought Baez was a top 2Bman, even if they did not like the cost associated with his signing. Nobody said he was not a top 2Bman in MLB. I said I wanted Baez, and was very wrong about him, at least for 2022. I'm fine with being wrong, but when Mr. non specific rails on and on about me getting that wrong, it rings very hollow, to me.

Who is all riled up? You seem as riled up as anyone else. Nobody is asking you to do Bloom's job for him, nor do we think we are doing that when we give specifics to our suggestions. It's not overanalyzing. You make very pointed comments like on Kike getting a $10M/1 deal, and then won't give even one specific example of a better choice. Yes, it's your choice to be the way you are, but don't act like we are all riled up or overanalyzing, just because we ask you to back up your opinion with specific evidence. It's how debates and discussions are structured in this world. We didn't invent the idea that positions should be supported with reasonings, evidence and examples. It's not being "riled up" to ask for specifics.

We should keep Bogey and Devers, they say, but then give contract amounts that won't keep them. They should trade them before they be come FAs, then when we do, like Betts, Bloom get's shellacked. We should "add a top closer" is a popular refrain from several posters. Who is out there, now? Would you have matched the Mets offer for Diaz? (Nobody would, but Bloom is bashed for not getting a guy like Diaz for less or not getting someone less like Diaz for much less money.) It's not easy on the FA market. All the best players are grossly overpaid, and predicting who the steals will be is very difficult. Who would have applauded Bloom has he signed Martin Perez, last winter? How many praised him for signing Wacha, Hill and Strahm? So far, almost all of Bloom's trades included us getting prospects in return or as part of the return. By definition, those trades were not intended to help us get better now (or then, if years ago), although some ended up working out like that (Pivetta & Ottavino), but some fans expected those trades to help us right out of the gate. To me, it's about the time to start transitioning into reversing that trade mode into making deals that help now and in the next 2-4 years while giving up prospects that project to help beyond the next 4 years, too. Will that happen, this winter? Maybe not. Maybe it happens, next winter. Maybe Bloom never pulls the trigger on a top prospect deal. We'll find out.

I agree, the Correa contract might up what Bogey gets, assuming CC is signed first, but he is 2 years younger, so I'm not sure it's a great comp.

I don't think that trade gets made without the extension made shortly afterwards at $108M/5. Castillo has 6 years of control, now, and they had him for the 2022 playoffs, as well. I'm fine with trading a hefty package for 5+ seasons of reasonable cost-controlled years. The team gets more of a sure bet for several big ifs. So, who is out there, now? I'd think long and hard about trading for 2 year SP'ers like Beiber or Lopez, unless they agree to an extension.

Joe Reliable is his choice in the pen. Johnny Best in CF. Peter Durable at SP.

AP Poll 1. Georgia 10-0 2. Ohio St 10-0 3. Michigan 10-0 4. TCU 10-0 5. Tennessee 9-1 6. LSU 8-2 (Can they be the first 2 loss team to make the playoffs?) 7. USC 9-1 8. Alabama 8-2 (Another 2 loss team with a chance) 9. Clemson 9-1 10. Utah 8-2 (No chance, IMO) Games remaining: 1 GA @ KY 2 OSU @ MD 3 MI v 23 IL 4 TCU @ Baylor 5 TN @ SC 6 LSU v UAB 7 USC @ UCLA 8 AL v Austin Peay 9 Clem v Mia FL _______________ 1 GA v GA Tech 2 OSU v 3 MI 4 TCU v IA St 5 Tenn @ Vandy 6 LSU @ TX AM 7 USC v 20 ND 8 AL v Aub 9 Clem v SC _______________ Conference Playoffs: 1 GA v LSU 2 OSU or 3 MI vs MN/IL/Pur/IA 4 TCU v K St (maybe OK St Or Baylor) 7 USC v Ore or UT (maybe UCLA/Wash) 9 Clem v 14 NC

You won't get names. You can never be wrong, if you just say... We need to add a top closer. We need to add a good CF'er, SS and SP'er.