moonslav59

BTW, you never answered my question, and who hired Larry?

Yes, I break it down differently than you and others. To me, we still have zero rings without Henry. It's that simple, to me. We might still have one ring without Papi, 4 without Yaz and Williams, and so on... Of course, it's the players that win the games, but the owners and management team make it happen. If not, why do many posters keep bashing JH's stinginess and Bloom & Cora more than the players?

He hit 31 HRs away and 30 at home in 1961.

So, JH hiring Theo and others meant nothing or very little with our ring winnings?

Found this pre-trade info about E Valdez we got for Vaz from Houston: Enmauel Valdez is now ranked 29th in the Astros' system before the outlets post-draft update which would likely move the utility man into the top-15. The lefty entered Saturday slashing .328/.411/.603 on the year between Double-A Corpus Christi and Triple-A Sugar Land. After winning Texas League Player of the Month for May and posting a 1.112 OPS for the Hooks, the 23-year-old received his first promotion to Triple-A in his career. Since he landed with the Space Cowboys on June 7, Valdez has an .898 OPS and nine home runs in 36 games. Post trade quotes Both these guys are fast risers in the Houston system,” chief baseball officer Chaim Bloom said on Monday night. “I don’t just mean in terms of the levels they’re at, but just in terms of the progression of their skills. Really good hitters.” Valdez ranked as the Astros’ No. 12 prospect, according to Baseball America’s midseason rankings, while Abreu ranked No. 21. The Athletic’s Keith Law ranked Abreu as No. 19 in his Astros’ preseason rankings while Valdez remained unranked. “The better of the two, by far, is outfielder Wilyer Abreu,” Law wrote Monday following the trade. -The Athletic Enmanuel Valdez, 2B Age: 23 Singed out of the Dominican Republic in 2015, Valdez has developed into one of the best hitters in the Astros system over the last two seasons. Valdez changed his approach coming out of the 2020 pandemic, and a more patient and power-driven hitter emerged. Valdez saw a sharp increase in his line drive and flyball rates in 2021 as he transformed from an aggressive contact hitter to a well-rounded offensive threat. This season Valdez has taken his production to new heights, hitting .327/.410/.606 with 21 home runs across Double-A and Triple-A. He balances aggression, contact and power well at the plate and could carve out a role as a bat-first utility player. The biggest question is around his future defensive home as he’s been rated as well below-average at his natural position of second base. Whether or not Valdez will hit enough to overcome his lack of defensive value remains to be seen. Wilyer Abreu, OF Age: 23 An unusually built athlete, Abreu has the ability to play all three outfield positions but is best suited for a corner role long term. He traded contact for power coming out of the pandemic but maintained his low chase rate. In 2022 Abreu has found a more balanced approach at the plate making more consistent contact while still hitting for power. In games Abreu has shown the ability to do damage, hitting 15 home runs through 89 games for Double-A Corpus Christi. He’s continued to hit the ball harder with each passing season, as his 2022 90th percentile exit velocity of 105 mph ranks above major league average. He’s also an excellent basestealer, having been caught just once on 24 attempts this season. Abreu is a tooled-up outfielder with some questions around his ability to hit long term. -Baseball America Valdez, 23, was the Astros’ No. 12 prospect, according to Baseball America. The Dominican Republic native is a left-handed hitter who absolutely mashed at Double-A Corpus Christi and Triple-A Sugar Land, totaling 21 home runs and 77 RBIs along with a .327/.410/.606 slash line in 82 games (378 plate appearances) across the two levels in 2022. Valdez, who’s capable of playing both the infield and outfield, is one of just four minor leaguers this season with at least a .300 batting average, a .400 on-base percentage and 20 home runs. “Valdez plays a lot of different positions, but the bat is really the calling card,” Bloom told reporters Monday, one day before the Major League Baseball trade deadline. “It’s come on very well and very quickly. Really, when you go under the hood, there’s a lot of things he does that make him a very complete hitter. He makes contact. He manages at-bats. He drives the ball. He covers all different pitch types. Covers the strike zone really well and has really come on this year, making nice progress offensively.” -NESN Enmanuel Valdez Valdez, a 23-year-old from the Dominican Republic, started the 2022 season at Double-A Corpus Christi where he batted .357 with a .463 on-base percentage, .649 slugging percentage, 1.112 OPS, 11 homers, 16 doubles, 40 runs, 45 RBIs, 34 walks and 47 strikeouts in 44 games (205 plate appearances). The 5-foot-9, 191-pound left-handed hitter then earned a promotion to Triple-A Sugar Land where he batted .296 with a .347 on-base percentage, .560 slugging percentage, .907 OPS, 10 homers, 10 doubles, one triple, 26 runs, 32 RBIs, 11 walks and 29 strikeouts in 38 games (173 plate appearances). Valdez — who has a 20.1% strikeout percentage and 11.9% walk percentage — has started games at second base, third base, first base and both corner outfield positions this year. His Baseball America scouting report notes, “Over the last two seasons, Valdez has progressed from an aggressive contact hitter with bat speed-driven raw power to a complete hitter at the plate. He now makes contact at an above-average rate, rarely expands the zone and shows exit velocity data that would rank above-average in the major leagues. He’s a tough out that grinds out at-bats, can hit for contact and punish mistakes. While he’s progressed into a legitimate offensive prospect there are questions around his long-term defensive home.” Valdez’s MLB Pipeline scouting report notes, “Valdez has done a better job of managing the strike zone since losing a season to the pandemic, and the added discipline has helped him tap more into his power. He’s making more consistent and harder contact with his quick left-handed swing. He’s more of a power-over-hit type but could provide 20 or more homers per season. Most of Valdez’s value will come from his bat because his speed, arm strength and defense are all fringy.” Wilyer Abreu Abreu, a 23-year-old left-handed hitter from Venezuela, batted .249 with a .399 on-base percentage, .459 slugging percentage, .858 OPS, 15 homers, 24 doubles, 81 runs, 54 RBIs, 23 stolen bases, 78 walks and 108 strikeouts in 89 games (411 plate appearances) for Double-A Corpus Christi this season. The 6-foot, 217-pounder has started 44 games in center field, 22 games in left field and 17 games in right field this season. Abreu’s Baseball America scouting reports notes: “After trading contact for power coming out of the 2020 pandemic, Abreu has found a happy medium this season, showing better bat-to-ball skills allowing him to more consistently access his power in game. He’s an extremely patient hitter with a discerning eye at the plate, leading to high walk totals and some strikeouts due to passivity. Overall it’s high level swing decisions with above-average game power. He has enough bat-to-ball skills to avoid the three-true-outcome label, but his average will fluctuate due to his flyball heavy approach. Defensively he can handle centerfield and tests highly on the Astros internal athleticism measurements. He has an unusual build as he’s a bigger bodied player for centerfield, but he has the ability to hit and provide versatility in the outfield.” His MLB Pipeline scouting report notes, “While he produces some of the better exit velocities among Houston farmhands, he also struck out at a 29 percent clip in 2021 and will have to prove he can make enough contact against more advanced pitching.” -Masslive 2022 Minor League Stats Wilyer Abreu .247 19 73 (579 PAs) .399 OBP/.435 SLG/.834 OPS 114 BBs leads the minors 106 runs is 5th 31 SB/3 CS is one of the best SB%s in the minors Enmanuel Valdez .297 28 107 (560 PAs) .377 OBP/.549 SLG/.927 OPS 107 RBI (T5th in minors) 65 XBHs 91 runs

He should have been one of Bloom's rare 2 year deals.

I still like my bubble wrap idea. I meant it as a joke, earlier, but now... We shrink wrap our pontoon boat for the winter. I'm just sayin'... It looks brand new in the spring.

I'm thinking he takes a QO. If the plan is to reset for 2024, it would fit the Sox needs. If they plan on re-setting in 2023- not so much.

Couldn't you say the same about the GM? It's the players not the GM, right?. IMO, especially after free agency, the GM has a major hand in what players are on the field, and the owner has a major hand on who the GM(s) will be.

JH and Co, hired Theo and not Richard O'Connell, Haywood Sullivan and Lou Gorman. (Duquette did help set up Theo nicely.) I won't speak of Ed Collins, Joe Cronin or those from the early 60's, and maybe they were better than their results showed. I do find it a bit puzzling that some seem to bash Bloom for having no rings yet, yet seem to think the owners who hired these "other" GMs had nothing or just a minor role in the results of those teams. If it's only about W's and L's and rings, they were all failures, buy their own criteria.

Pivetta is an arb player. He's back, Wacha needs to be given a QO and accept it or be re-signed. Unless he's asking for the world, I'd try real hard to bring Wacha back.

Maybe we are overly optimistic about our team's future, but I think there is a solid foundation of young players and vets returning. Many are just role players, for now, or have yet to prove they can be significant pluses going forward. Some may not shine by 2023, but many seem on track to shining very soon. When you look who has come up to the team since Devers & Beni, it's quite shocking to see than guys like Houck, Dalbec and Duran are some of the most notable. Whitlock could be counted as a prospect making good, but he was not from our system and never pitched in our minor league system. We still have Devers, Story, Dugo, Kike, Arroyo and now McGuire, Casas, Refsnyder, Wong and Hosmer. True, some are questionable as being pluses in 2023, but many look better than what we had this year or even in 2021. The staff still has a solid 4/5 starter in Pivetta and hopes for Sale and/or Paxton in 2023. Whitlock and Houck maybe comeback strong. Taylor, too. Schreiber has shown a lot of promise- Crawford to a lesser extent. Barnes has pitcher very well since mid August, and Bello looks more and more like he can be a big plus in 2023. Most of all, the young players and near ML ready prospects offer a lot of hope. Some may take until 2024 or beyond to shine, but several look ready for 2023 beyond just Bello, Casas, Wong, German, Crawford and Kelly. We have Mata, E Valdez, Walter, Murphy, Wink, Seabold, Bazardo, Ort, RHern, Duran, Downs and maybe later in 2023, Rafaela, Abreu or Hamilton. I know many of these names have seen their stock fall, but we don't need even 1/3 of the second list to contribute in some small way in 2023- just maybe 1 to 3 of the 11 listed. It's not a stretch to think that might happen. We have some big shoes to fill, but we have a big winter spending budget, too. I'm choosing optimism, and I don't think it is an unrealistic choice.

Enmauel Valdez is heating up for the Woo Sox. He had a great start to the year in the Houston system. 3 for 5, tonight. The season is almost over in AAA.

He sure looks good. I think Mata might challenge him, soon.

Teams were able to spend big to get young talent. Some "unsignable" draftees often fell to later picks and then signed with bigger spending teams like the Yanks (and even the Sox later in the century.) Many called the Royals the Yankee farm team, because the often traded higher priced players to the Yanks. Ownership hires the GMs and that decides who plays on the team, even before free agency. I will say my point was more about the 70's and beyond, and some of my points, like the need for a second ace, did not really apply pre-free agency. Point well taken.

Once again, I never said you or an yone else called JH a bad or even mediocre owner. I won't speak to the pre-70's Sox, but to me, we never won a ring until we had two aces and a solid team behind them. It took an owner who had the foresight and financial will to make it happen. In now way, am I slighting the great players the Sox had before Henry, or discounting some of the freaky circumstances that prevented rings between 1918 and 2004, including the 1975 injury to Rice, the Buckner game, and so many other near misses not related to the any lack of skills by Sox teams past. That management team of the 70's knew talent but botched so many aspects, such as not sending Fisk his contract offer in time, that ownership has to share in a large share of the blame for never winning that decade. We also stuck with a racist owner for longer than most cities. I understand your position and others and totally respect it.

It took an owner willing to pay a steep price for a second ace (Schilling, then Beckett, then Lackey, then Price) plus paying top dollar for guys like Manny, Damon and JD (some, like AGon and Crawford did not work out as well) to get over the hump. I'm not slighting the greatness of Williams, Yaz and others, but ownership and management held those teams back just enough to prevent rings.

I'm not trying to hedge my bets, here, and I have no idea if Bloom will "get the job done," this winter, but he really needs to hit on about 75-85% of all his key additions to make the 2023 team into a winner. I'm optimistic, but I realize he has not been at the 75-85% success rate, so far. While I do think he has shown a net plus in signings and non-trade additions, considering the budget he's had, he needs to do even better. I'm thinking he might hit 50-75%, and the odds on large and long contracts has been worse than that in MLB, but I would not bet on better than 67%.

He was way too young, back then. Certainly ownership and management were often blamed for not going the extra mile to add 1 or 2 more key pieces, especially that "second ace."

I agree, they won't count on German and many other prospects to be significant pluses in 2023, but I do think he has an inside track to making the opening day 26 man roster, as do Casas, Bello, Wong and Crawford. I think Enmanuel Valdez, Kelly and maybe one from Wink, Seabold and Ort may win the 8th RP'er slot. Compare that to the 3-5 year total of contributing prospects prior to 2023: Dalbec, Houck, Duran and I guess we can count Whitlock from the Yankee system.

No doubt, that is a fair criticism, although budget restraints were part of the equation. Yes, Bloom chose to add Paxton, JBJ and Diekman's money to the pool, but the additions of Wacha, Strahm, Schreiber, Refsnyder and to some extent Hill, more or less evened that out, IMO, if not ended up a net plaus, if you add McGuire, Pham and others to the balance sheet - not to mention further farm additions via trades.

He should have a big enough budget to go beyond anything he's ever had before, although he does have to replace Bogey, JD, Nate, Vaz and newcomers Wacha, Strahm and Hill. He will no longer have Pedey or Price's deadwood as a hindurence. I've said a few times, 2023 will be Bloom's "flashpoint."

If we are only looking at glimpses of skills shown in 2022, then I'd add Kelly (1.03 WHIP)to the list. Bazardo's sample is too small (10 IP w 1.000 WHIP), but you already made a determination on German after just 1 IP.

Okay, but you went out of your way to point out Casas and Bello were unimpressive, so it sounded like you were just listing all prospects who had an opportunity, this year, not those who still are only promising to you. I'd add Crawford to the list of Casas, Bello and Wong, and I still have hopes for German & Kelly. I have not given up on Wink, Seabold, Duran and Downs, but certainly I feel worse about them, after this year than I did in March. Earlier, you asked about who might help in 2023, and I think Mata has a good chance at adding to the 26 roster in 2023. Murphy, RHern, EValdez and possibly Rafaela, TWard, Abreu or Lugo may help later in 2023. There is some reason for optimism before 2024 comes around.

You did not say New players. Pivetta did prove he was not a fluke and should be a decent 4/5 going forward. Story improved 2B, immensely. He is not the reason Bogey might go. He will not be moved to SS in 2023. He was an addition to 2B. We aren't talking about possi ble losses. We were talking about what looks promising from 2022's team, concerning their 2023 outloook. Story: plus Schreiber: plus Refsnyder: plus Whitlock, Houck and Pivetta proved 2022 was not a fluke. Their futures, this March were largely unknown. Bello is ML ready. He just needs an adjustment period, and hopefully, some of that took place in this lost season- making 2023 look more promising than before. Crawford looks more promising now, than in March. Many do not, but you asked about who was promising or more promising.