moonslav59

Worse than the racist Yawkey?

This better be sarcasm. He may be a jerk, but 4 rings screams "SCOREBOARD!"

It's all Monopoly money for these GMs, but at least with Nimmo, the AAV was about what was expected. The added 2-3 years was the surprise. I'd have done it and traded Dugo.

They may move Kike to SS and leave Story at 2B. Our OF, would be, before an addition or two, Yoshida in LF, Dugo in CF and Refsnyder in RF w Duran as #4 until Rafaela can come up. We'd be filling a hole while opening another.

I don't think Nimmo's deal is as much an overpay as many others, recently.

The list is dwindling: 2. Correa 5. Swanson 6. Rodon 11. Senga 13. Bassitt 15. Benintendi 17. Manaea 21. Syndergaard 23. Eovaldi 24. T Rogers 25. JD Martinez 26. Vazquez 33. Profar 37. Drury 38. Stripling 39. Chafin 40. Segura 41. Wacha 43. Brantley 44. Conforto 47. J Turner 48. Kluber 50. Rucinski Andrus Belt Carpenter Cueto Fulmer Gallo Kiermaier

He's too old, too.

Better hope the next owner is a spender and good at hiring the right GMs.

It's funny how everything can change in one day. I felt pretty good, yesterday, even knowing Bogey was likely gone, but after today, I feel like crap.

They aren't really "lowball," but they certainly aren't "highball," either. When you look at the success rate of the top 22, maybe going for some quantity over quality worked out better. I'm not saying JH is above criticism, but it's hard for me to give him an overall failing grade. I'm also on board with the idea that after 2019, we needed to build up the farm as the #1 priority. That's not an excuse for the botched up exits by our stars. We could have kept at least some of our stars or handled their departures better AND built up the farm.

It will be interesting to see how this winter winds down. Is JH hearing the rumblings enough to realize something needs to change? If we still stick to the idea that the budget restes, what are our chances? What are our options? We could decide to make a push for higher competitiveness in 2023 by trading away a top prospect or two, but that compromises the idea of building a sustainable system for years to come. We could try and hit gold with the $40M or so we have left, but we need some major additions. We can all argue over how many or which areas need the most help, but here is my take: 1) We need a solid SP; an ace would be best, but a strong #2 might due. Are we willing to trade for one? Is Nate or Kluber good enough? Is Senga out of our price range due to other high needs? 2) We need a solid RH'd bat for the line-up. We have some positional flexibility, if we are willing to move Story or Kike to SS and/or Dugo to RF. That makes 4 positions, 5 if you count DH, where we can fill the offensive needs while filling a positional need, at the same time. SS RF 2B CF 3) If we fill #1 and #2, we can probably get by with covering DH with a mix of bench players, but we still need to fill one more slot, even if mostly with a defensive player. (SS or RF makes the most sense, defensively, as Kike in CF and Story at 2B are big pluses on defense.) 3 big needs. $40M to spend. Trade possibilities, if we are willing to pull the trigger. I know I've beaten a dead horse on the idea of taking on Avisail Garcia's contract, so we can get Pablo Lopez for less than it would normally take to get him. Together, they will make about $19M AAV. That is only half of our remaining budget and we fill 2 positional slots (SP and RF/DH.) I would not say Garcia fills the big RH'd batter need I listed, but he may bounce back to help the O. The other $20M would need to be spent on a hitting SS at $20M per (not Swanson) or to go with Andrus and try to find a RH'd DH that combined make $20-22M. Is that doable? There are a few combinations of trades with the Marlins, I think might be enough to fill all our needs and keep us under the tax line: Pablo Lopez ~$5.3M (2nd of 3 arbs) 119 ERA+ from 2020-2023 and 3.48 FIP Jon Berti ~2.5M (2nd of 4 arbs) RHB best at 2B & SS but can play OF, too. Has speed and a .335 OBP Avisail Garcia $13.25M x 3 (RHB RF/DH) He's a salary dump. He's a negative defender. He sucked on O, last year (65 OPS+), but a 96-99 OPS+ from the last 2-4 years, combined one from... Garrett Cooper $3M in last arb (RHB- 1B/DH) Maybe a change of scenery will help him. 113 OPS+, last year and 120 from 2020-2022. Jorge Soler $12M x 2 (RHB LF/DH) A salary dump, for sure, but a 99 OPS+ since 2020 is not beyond hope. BTV Values -26.0 Garcia -20.9 Soler +5.0 Cooper +7.5 Berti (I'd give more than this value) +38.7 Lopez So, let's say... Lopez, Berti, Garcia and Cooper (Total BTV: 25.2) BTV accepted: Rafaela (15.1), Verdugo (6.7), Walter (5.6), Wikelman (1.4), Downs (1.1) and Dalbec (0.8) or Lopez, Berti and Soler (Total BTV: about 0) Give 'em Duran, Downs, Dalbec and Verdugo. This doesn't solve every problem, but we'd still have money to spend and all our top 4 prospects and young players (Bello, Casas, Mayer, Bleis)

Lots of pitchers will have to adjust to the new rules. Jansen is a vet. He's going to be fine- more than fine.

I expected more, after watching the last few days unfold. Sox could have afforded $168/8.

David Robertson, too at $10M x 1.

You missed my point. The Sox might think Devers is worth a mega deal. They did not think Bogey was. I know Devers will get more money and more years. I'm not saying I know the Sox want him enough to give out that kind of deal, but if the want Devers is makes his case over Bogey's, who I think they never wanted to pay market value. It's not that they are afraid to pay high market rates: it's they don't want to pay those rates to the wrong person. Again, just my opinion, and maybe they don't value Devers highly, either. I know I do, so I'm hoping they do, too.

DD redux.

Depends what he wants, but after watching the last few days, he will be wanting even more. We lost Bogey, because we did not want him for near market value. That's what makes me think it might be different with Devers.

I did at the deadline, but trading Bogey last winter does not have to be tanking. We'd have his $20M to spend and whatever we get for him, too.

It stinks, but it's a valid point. If they knew they were never going to pay B ogey near what he was going to get, they should have traded him. Same with Devers, now. When you get your system as fine tuned as the Atsros, and you have studs waiting to replace your departing studs, you don't need to trade them before a season where you might win. Until then, we are in building up mode. We aren't getting any better by replacing Bogey with a comp pick and Andrus.

It is now a pattern. If they don't learn with Devers, they may never do it. As you know, I'm all for Devers Forevers, but if we are going to lose him, we need to trade him, this winter.

Yes, and I've said that before. Maybe even earlier, if we knew for sure. I was even for trading him at the deadline, if he'd have agreed to waive the clause. A comp pick sucks. If they are keeping our stars until the end for the fans' enjoyment, it's not working.

Not saying it's a false report, but it is The Globe. Maybe Bogey told Bloom he'd come back before accepting an offer, but did not. That could be surprising, I guess. I'm not happy, either. I'm frustrated that this is fast becoming a pattern. I'm not surprised, and probably few are. Maybe I confused anger and frustration with surprise. I'm glad we signed 3 key players and am trying to stay hopeful we add 2 more good ones- maybe 3.

I don't disagree, but we all pretty much knew he was a goner or at best 50-50.

See post #4334.

Why are we acting surprised Bogey bolted?