moonslav59

Well said. I do think the Sullivan purges had me feeling about this badly. Not sending Fisk his contract on time, which allowed him to become a FA has to be one of, if not the worst mistakes ever made by a Sox GM. He could have just traded him! Losing Betts sucked, but I do think we offered a fair contract and then got what we could for him. The Lester fiasco still hurts. There are some unknowns on Bogey, like what were his demands, but that looks like a total cluster. The Beni, JBJ, Vaz moves are baseball, to me. Those types of trades have always been made. Some of the purges of that great 70's teams were due to clashed with the manager: Bill Lee, Bernie Carbo and maybe Cecil Cooper, too. But the loss of Lynn, Burleson, Tiant (to the Yanks, no less) and even guys like Hobson was a very low point in Sox management history. These were two different eras, but that was real bad.

Yes, some players will get hurt in 2023, no doubt, but I do think we can expect less than 2022 (and maybe more than 2021.) 38 J Turner (just turned 38 and should DH) He's had 420+ PAs in 7 of 8 yrs and 530+ in 3 of 4. 36 Martin (a key pen piece, but we also have Jansen, Houck & Schreiber) 34 Brasier (may be DFA'd soon) 34 Jansen (been solid and durable for 12 straight seasons) 33 Sale & Paxton (They are what they are.) 32 Barnes (looked to be coming on at the end of '22) 31 Refsnyder (can hardly say he's worn out) 30 Joely, Ort and Kike (still in prime) The rest are 29 or younger. I'm not talking Sale and Paxton. I'm thinking counting on both to combined for 25-33 starts is likely wishful thinking, but guys like Kike and Story are not at ages where you expect them to repeat their lost time in 2022. It looked like Devers was playing hurt through August, and at his age, one might think he's about to have a career year. If you look at the ages of our key players, some do jump out as higher risk, but our team is not "old."

Words have different meanings to him, so there is that, like when he said I "don't like Bogey, of his defense either," that meant just his defense. He doubled and tripled down on what he said meaning something totally different from its actual meaning rather than just say, "That's what I meant to say."

No. Now, this is "strike two," as you like to call it. We were responding to a post that said this... Bloom is hiring only wounded old dogs. To which you replied, Already did with Pax, and Frail. No, Bloom did not do that with "Frail. Now, I expect you to go on and say we are overanalyzing of double down on being wrong rather than admit you made yet another mistake. It's what you do.

Getting a comp pick for Devers plus one year from him vs whatever we get in trade? If I liked our chances in 2023, I might agree, and I guess if we sign Andrus and Kluber and trade for a solid SP and maybe Dugo for a real RF'er, I'd be more inclined to agree. Maybe if we just do 2 or 3 of the 4 things I listed, I might have more optimism, but it seems like we will be wasting a chance at getting better, long term on false hopes of a miracle in '23.

Certainly the most likely scenario. The Sox just never felt Bogey was anywhere near what BorA$$ wanted. Maybe part of their decision was based on thinking he'd never get close to what was demanded, and if that's the case, they sure got that wrong. If their setting value system was so far off, at least on Bogey, there is a chance they are proven right, but it seems like all the big ticket players are being grossly overpaid, so a choice needs to be made, or already has been made, to either bite the bullet or go with more second tier FAs over frontline ones. Maybe not quite the extreme quantity over quality I've been calling it but never top quality, if it is expensive. To win under that system, you gotta have an incredibly strong farm system- top to bottom. Scouts, developers and people able to spot the right guys to trade for. The RHerns, Binelases and Winckowskis aren't getting the job done. It took the Astros many years to get to where they got, and tanking for a few made it go more quickly than it will probably take the Sox, but it does look like that part of the planterm. has been the highest priority since day one of Bloom's term. It's hard to know, if we'll ever come close to the talent the Astros system churned out and is still churning out, but it does look like we are trying to get there, and often at the expense of the here and now ML team. We've traded no top prospects under bloom and even during DD's last season. That's 4 years. I'm hopeful we'll start seeing results from the farm, this year, and most of Bloom's farm additions are slated for arrival in 2024 or beyond, but most fans don't really want to hear about 2025 and beyond hopes and dreams. They don't even want to wait until 2024. I don't either. I thought this could be the winter- Bogey or no Bogey, where we flip from quantity to quality, but for some reason, the Sox top brass has a different view or plan. They won't be honest about their plan, and that makes it worse. For some reason, they think lying and deceiving the fanbase will make things better. They couldn't be more wrong. I'm not sure they know how or have the will to change their stripes.

It sure looks that way, but maybe this time will be different. I'm trying to stay hopeful, but there is not much to base it on, in terms of keeping Devers around. We better not lose him for a comp pick and hopes of some one year window belief. At least we got something for Betts, Vaz and Beni- maybe not enough, but we tried. 4th round comp picks are not "trying."

Probably not as much as Bloom's name.

But Nate was loved by all those fans on talk radio!

Strike one! DD extended Frail. I was thinking Nat, JD, Wacha and Hill- all old, hurt or both. Seems like bringing back the team many hated was what many wanted.

Should he have brought back our wounded and old dogs?

You call me out for trying to defend Bloom on things I disagree on, and yet you tear down Sox players based on innuendos. Get lost! You remind me of Swihart's Ghost who literally bashed 35 out of the 40 men on the roster and everyone from the ballboy to Henry, and called himself a Sox fan. What a joke!

Where have I even hinted at anyone needing to feel good about this? I have said it sucks and am not happy. I'm fine with saying good bye to Nate, Vaz and Beni. JD is over the hill. Bringing him back makes us no better. I was happy JBJ signed with the Brewers and was glad Bloom let him go. Not sure if you counted him in your "6-7 Players," but he was my favorite player. I was pissed at Bloom for bringing him back, and apparently that is being an apologist in your warped mind. I hated seeing Betts go and suggested offering him more than anyone on this board. I happen to not blame Bloom for Mookie's departure and don't view it as being a Bloom apologist. I don't think Bogey was worth close to what he got, and agree we messed up the whole situation, but I would not sign him to $200M/8, even know. Nothing to do with Bloom of not loving Bogey as much as you do. I'm the driver of the Devers Forvers bandwagon and supported the Sale extension, so does that make me a DD apologist? I'll be super pissed if Devers is not extended, but I don't think it will be Bloom's call. If that's being an apologist, you need to look up what the word means. I hated seeing many Sox players go. We've won afterwards, so I'm not throwing in the towel over losing Bogey. I'm going to root for my Sox and try to be optimistic. You and others can go on choosing negativity and wallowing in the mire. That doesn't make me happy with what has happened, but I'm not giving up on my team. Why don't you go root for the Dodgers. They have more players you love.

I notice your intense negativity and morbid views on a team you apparently are a fan of.

The negativity is going beyond what I could have ever expected. This is very sad.

I'd like to hope we will have some significant additions before opening day, and of course the Devers situation is on everyone's mind. It might be too early to start looking at our roster in depth and comparing it to past teams. I already did a brief comp with the 2022 team but we can improve on 2022 and still come up sort of making the playoffs or better. Here is a comp to the 2021 team, and maybe this will be more telling. Catcher .686 OPS (Vaz .640/ Plawecki .780 in 2021) McGuire and Wong- close to even. 1B: .761 OPS (.768 Dalbec + 8 others) Casas and Dalbec- close to even 2B: .777 OPS (1.052 Kike/.764 Arroyo/.511 Marwin & 8 others) Story should do better, but he may be at SS SS: .822 OPS (Bogey .855) ??? Massive edge to Bogey 3B: .909 OPS (Devers .902) Devers about equal LF: .695 OPS (.772 Dugo/ .641 JD .472 Cordero) Yoshida should be a plus CF: .678 OPS (.671 Kike/ .806 Dugo/.590 Duran) Kike should be better RF: .803 OPS (.824 Renfroe/ .793 Dugo) Dugo & Ref should be worse DH: .906 OPS (.945 JD) J Turner & others should be worse. The everyday 9? 3 better, 3 about the same, 3 worse Pitching by IP in 2021: (ERA+) 182 Nate 125 > Sale is likely a minus 158 ERod 99 > Paxton is likely a minus 155 Pivetta 103 > Pivetta is even 137 Richards 96 > Whitlock is likely a big plus 114 Perez 99 > Bello is likely a plus 43 Sale 149 > ??? hard to know Rotation might end up even 73 Whitlock 239 > Jansen would be hard to beat the '21 GW - minus 69 Houck 133 > Houck about the same 62 Ottavino 112 > Martin - plus 55 Barnes 124 > Barnes- minus 53 Sawamura 154> Schreiber- equal/plus 48 Taylor 138 > Joely - minus 40 DHern 140> Mills -??? 40 Valdez 81> Brasier -??? 37 Andriese 78 > Taylor/Crawford - ??? 25 Robles/24 Rios/20 Workman >>> ??? Pen looks about even, too. Maybe, I'm being generous, but I think the team, right now could be viewed as being close to the 2021 team, but that drop off at SS, DH and Ace is pretty steep.

Over $100M for Yoshida does not fit that mold. Not that many months ago, he signed Story to $140M. Are these guys child molsters?

I'm not happy we lose our fan faves. I wasn't all that upset losing Beni and felt "losing" JBJ was the right thing. It was bringing back that shocked me. Losing Betts was worse than Lester, but the Lester oen was handled so badly, it makes it stand out more. I have always said if it comes down to one OR the other, I'd choose Devers over Bogey, but losing both would be devastating. If our new model is to be like Houston, then letting some fan faves go might not be so bad, but we have to win and keep winning to have it all make sense.

Agreed. My position on Devers is well known. I can't imagine a scenario where we will win quickly enough after losing Devers. I do think if somehow we do, things will be back to the norm, which of course is not all that great.

Too bad we didn't sign Bauer or trade for Tatis.

So, you wanted JBJ to stay?

Maybe no further "official offers" were made afterwards, if one side's demand or offer was so far off, the other felt no need to respond. That may have been the case with Bogey.

Here the whole list: Red= one year from half, half or more than half over, but not on my last list 1. Mike Trout, $426,500,000 (2019-30) 2. Mookie Betts, $365,000,000 (2021-32) 3. Aaron Judge, $360,000,000 (2023-31) 4. Carlos Correa, $350,000,000 (2023-35) 5. Francisco Lindor, $341,000,000 (2022-31) 6. Fernando Tatis, $340,000,000 (2021-34) 7. Bryce Harper, $330,000,000 (2019-31) 8. Giancarlo Stanton, $325,000,000 (2015-27) 9. Corey Seager, $325,000,000 (2022-31) 10. Gerrit Cole, $324,000,000 (2020-28) 11. Manny Machado, $300,000,000 (2019-28) … Trea Turner, $300,000,000 (2023-33) 13. Xander Bogaerts, $280,000,000 (2023-33) 14. Alex Rodriguez, $275,000,000 (2008-17) 15. Nolan Arenado, $260,000,000 (2019-26) 16. Alex Rodriguez, $252,000,000 (2001-10) 17. Miguel Cabrera, $248,000,000 (2016-23) 18. Stephen Strasburg, $245,000,000 (2020-26) … Anthony Rendon, $245,000,000 (2020-26) 20. Albert Pujols, $240,000,000 (2012-21) … Robinson Cano, $240,000,000 (2014-23) 22. Joey Votto, $225,000,000 (2014-23) 23. David Price, $217,000,000 (2016-22) 24. Clayton Kershaw, $215,000,000 (2014-20) … Christian Yelich, $215,000,000 (2020-28) 26. Prince Fielder, $214,000,000 (2012-20) 27. Austin Riley, $212,000,000 (2023-32) 28. Max Scherzer, $210,000,000 (2015-21) … Julio Rodriguez, $209,300,000 (2023-34) 30. Zack Greinke, $206,500,000 (2016-21) 31. Derek Jeter, $189,000,000 (2001-10) 32. Jacob deGrom, $185,000,000 (2023-27) 33. Joe Mauer, $184,000,000 (2011-18) . . . Jason Heyward, $184,000,000 (2016-23) 35. Wander Franco, $182,000,000 (2022-32) . . . Kris Bryant, $182,000,000 (2022-28) 37. Mark Teixeira, $180,000,000 (2009-16) . . . Justin Verlander, $180,000,000 (2013-19) 39. Dansby Swanson, $177,000,000 (2023-29) 40. Felix Hernandez, $175,000,000 (2013-19) . . . Stephen Strasburg, $175,000,000 (2017-23) . . . Marcus Semien, $175,000,000 (2022-28) 43. Matt Olson, $168,000,000 (2022-29) 44. Buster Posey, $167,000,000 (2013-21) 45. Jose Altuve, $163,500,000 (2018-24) 46. Freddie Freeman, $162,000,000 (2022-27) . . . Brandon Nimmo, $162,000,000 (2023-30) . . . Carlos Rodón, $162,000,000 (2023-28) 49. CC Sabathia, $161,000,000 (2009-15) . . . Chris Davis, $161,000,000 (2016-22) 51. Manny Ramirez, $160,000,000 (2001-08) . . . Matt Kemp, $160,000,000 (2012-19) 53. Troy Tulowitzki, $157,750,000 (2011-20) 54. Masahiro Tanaka, $155,000,000 (2014-20) . . . Jon Lester, $155,000,000 (2015-20) 56. Adrian Gonzalez, $154,000,000 (2012-18) 57. Jacoby Ellsbury, $153,000,000 (2014-20) 58. Miguel Cabrera, $152,300,000 (2008-15) 59. Zack Greinke, $147,000,000 (2013-18) 60. Chris Sale, $145,000,000 (2020-24) 61. Mike Trout, $144,500,000 (2015-20) 62. Cole Hamels, $144,000,000 (2013-18) . . . Eric Hosmer, $144,000,000 (2018-25) 64. Carl Crawford, $142,000,000 (2011-17) 65. Todd Helton, $141,500,000 (2003-11) 66. Jose Ramirez, $141,000,000 (2022-28) 67. Patrick Corbin, $140,000,000 (2019-24) 68. Javier Baez, $140,000,000 (2022-27) 69. David Wright, $138,000,000 (2013-20) 70. Johan Santana, $137,500,000 (2008-13) . . . Jacob deGrom, $137,500,000 (2019-23) 72. Alfonso Soriano, $136,000,000 (2007-14) 73. Freddie Freeman, $135,000,000 (2014-21) 74. Justin Upton, $132,750,000 (2016-21) 75. Jose Berrios, $131,000,000 (2022-28) 76. Shin-Soo Choo, $130,000,000 (2014-20) . . . Johnny Cueto, $130,000,000 (2016-21) . . . Paul Goldschmidt, $130,000,000 (2020-24) . . . Max Scherzer, $130,000,000 (2022-24) 80. Matt Cain, $127,500,000 (2012-17) 81. Barry Zito, $126,000,000 (2007-13) . . . Vernon Wells, $126,000,000 (2008-14) . . . Jayson Werth, $126,000,000 (2011-17) . . . Yu Darvish, $126,000,000 (2018-23) 85. Ryan Howard, $125,000,000 (2012-16) . . . Josh Hamilton, $125,000,000 (2013-17) . . . George Springer, $125,000,000 (2021-26) 88. CC Sabathia, $122,000,000 (2012-16) 89. Mike Hampton, $121,000,000 (2001-08) 90. Jason Giambi, $120,000,000 (2002-08) . . . Matt Holliday, $120,000,000 (2010-16) . . . Cliff Lee, $120,000,000 (2011-15) . . . Elvis Andrus, $120,000,000 (2015-22) . . . Xander Bogaerts, $120,000,000 (2020-25) 95. Carlos Beltran, $119,000,000 (2005-11) 96. Zack Wheeler, $118,000,000 (2020-24) 97. Ken Griffey Jr., $116,500,000 (2000-08) 98. J.T. Realmuto, $115,500,000 (2021-25) 99. Robbie Ray, $115,000,000 (2022-26) . . . Yordan Alvarez, $115,000,000 (2023-28) 101. Jordan Zimmermann, $110,000,000 (2016-20) . . . Dustin Pedroia, $110,000,000 (2014-21) . . . Yoenis Cespedes, $110,000,000 (2017-20) . . . J.D. Martinez, $110,000,000 (2018-22) . . . Kevin Gausman, $110,000,000 (2022-26) 106. Charlie Blackmon, $108,000,000 (2018-23) . . . Luis Castillo, $108,000,000 (2023-27) 108. Jose Reyes, $106,000,000 (2012-17) . . . Justin Upton, $106,000,000 (2018-22) 110. Carlos Correa, $105,300,000 (2022-24) 111. Kevin Brown, $105,000,000 (1999-2005) . . . Homer Bailey, $105,000,000 (2014-19) . . . Ryan Braun, $105,000,000 (2016-20) 114. Trevor Bauer, $102,000,000 (2021-23) . . . Edwin Diaz, $102,000,000 (2023-27) 116. Albert Pujols, $100,000,000 (2004-10) . . . Carlos Lee, $100,000,000 (2007-12) . . . Ryan Zimmerman, $100,000,000 (2014-19) . . . Evan Longoria, $100,000,000 (2017-22) . . . Kyle Seager, $100,000,000 (2015-21) . . . Alex Bregman, $100,000,000 (2020-24) . . . Ronald Acuna, $100,000,000 (2019-26) . . . Byron Buxton, $100,000,000 (2022-28) . . . Nick Castellanos, $100,000,000 (2022-26) . . . Joe Musgrove, $100,000,000 (2023-27) 126. Adam Wainwright, $97,500,000 (2014-18) 127. Pablo Sandoval, $95,000,000 (2015-19) 128. Clayton Kershaw, $93,000,000 (2019-21) 129. Josh Donaldson, $92,000,000 (2020-23) 130. Carlos Zambrano, $91,500,000 (2008-12) 131. Mike Piazza, $91,000,000 (1999-2005) 132. Chipper Jones, $90,000,000 (2001-06) . . . Barry Bonds, $90,000,000 (2002-06) . . . Scott Rolen, $90,000,000 (2003-10) . . . Torii Hunter, $90,000,000 (2008-12) . . . Ichiro Suzuki, $90,000,000 (2008-12) . . . Hunter Pence, $90,000,000 (2014-18) . . . Jeff Samardzija, $90,000,000 (2016-20) . . . D.J. Lemahieu, $90,000,000 (2021-26) . . . Masataka Yoshida, $90,000,000 (2023-27)

Here are the highest paid FA contracts in MLB that are over or 1-2 years from being over. (per cots) I'd like people's opinions on what percent turned out well for the team signing them. 14. Alex Rodriguez, $275,000,000 (2008-17) 16. Alex Rodriguez, $252,000,000 (2001-10) 17. Miguel Cabrera, $248,000,000 (2016-23) 20. Albert Pujols, $240,000,000 (2012-21) … Robinson Cano, $240,000,000 (2014-23) 22. Joey Votto, $225,000,000 (2014-23) 23. David Price, $217,000,000 (2016-22) 24. Clayton Kershaw, $215,000,000 (2014-20) 26. Prince Fielder, $214,000,000 (2012-20) 28. Max Scherzer, $210,000,000 (2015-21) 30. Zack Greinke, $206,500,000 (2016-21) 31. Derek Jeter, $189,000,000 (2001-10) 33. Joe Mauer, $184,000,000 (2011-18) . . . Jason Heyward, $184,000,000 (2016-23) 37. Mark Teixeira, $180,000,000 (2009-16) . . . Justin Verlander, $180,000,000 (2013-19) 40. Felix Hernandez, $175,000,000 (2013-19) . . . Stephen Strasburg, $175,000,000 (2017-23) .44. Buster Posey, $167,000,000 (2013-21) 45. Jose Altuve, $163,500,000 (2018-24) 49. CC Sabathia, $161,000,000 (2009-15) . . . Chris Davis, $161,000,000 (2016-22) 51. Manny Ramirez, $160,000,000 (2001-08) . . . Matt Kemp, $160,000,000 (2012-19) 53. Troy Tulowitzki, $157,750,000 (2011-20) 54. Masahiro Tanaka, $155,000,000 (2014-20) . . . Jon Lester, $155,000,000 (2015-20) 56. Adrian Gonzalez, $154,000,000 (2012-18) 57. Jacoby Ellsbury, $153,000,000 (2014-20) 58. Miguel Cabrera, $152,300,000 (2008-15) 59. Zack Greinke, $147,000,000 (2013-18) 60. Chris Sale, $145,000,000 (2020-24) 61. Mike Trout, $144,500,000 (2015-20) 62. Cole Hamels, $144,000,000 (2013-18) 64. Carl Crawford, $142,000,000 (2011-17) 65. Todd Helton, $141,500,000 (2003-11) 67. Patrick Corbin, $140,000,000 (2019-24) 69. David Wright, $138,000,000 (2013-20) 70. Johan Santana, $137,500,000 (2008-13) . . . Jacob deGrom, $137,500,000 (2019-23) 72. Alfonso Soriano, $136,000,000 (2007-14) 73. Freddie Freeman, $135,000,000 (2014-21) 74. Justin Upton, $132,750,000 (2016-21) 76. Shin-Soo Choo, $130,000,000 (2014-20) . . . Johnny Cueto, $130,000,000 (2016-21) . . . Paul Goldschmidt, $130,000,000 (2020-24) . . . Max Scherzer, $130,000,000 (2022-24) 80. Matt Cain, $127,500,000 (2012-17) 81. Barry Zito, $126,000,000 (2007-13) . . . Vernon Wells, $126,000,000 (2008-14) . . . Jayson Werth, $126,000,000 (2011-17) . . . Yu Darvish, $126,000,000 (2018-23) 85. Ryan Howard, $125,000,000 (2012-16) . . . Josh Hamilton, $125,000,000 (2013-17) 88. CC Sabathia, $122,000,000 (2012-16) 89. Mike Hampton, $121,000,000 (2001-08) 90. Jason Giambi, $120,000,000 (2002-08) . . . Matt Holliday, $120,000,000 (2010-16) . . . Cliff Lee, $120,000,000 (2011-15) . . . Elvis Andrus, $120,000,000 (2015-22) 95. Carlos Beltran, $119,000,000 (2005-11) 96. Zack Wheeler, $118,000,000 (2020-24) 97. Ken Griffey Jr., $116,500,000 (2000-08) 101. Jordan Zimmermann, $110,000,000 (2016-20) . . . Dustin Pedroia, $110,000,000 (2014-21) . . . Yoenis Cespedes, $110,000,000 (2017-20) . . . J.D. Martinez, $110,000,000 (2018-22) 106. Charlie Blackmon, $108,000,000 (2018-23) 108. Jose Reyes, $106,000,000 (2012-17) . . . Justin Upton, $106,000,000 (2018-22) 110. Carlos Correa, $105,300,000 (2022-24) 111. Kevin Brown, $105,000,000 (1999-2005) . . . Homer Bailey, $105,000,000 (2014-19) . . . Ryan Braun, $105,000,000 (2016-20) 114. Trevor Bauer, $102,000,000 (2021-23) 116. Albert Pujols, $100,000,000 (2004-10) . . . Carlos Lee, $100,000,000 (2007-12) . . . Ryan Zimmerman, $100,000,000 (2014-19) . . . Evan Longoria, $100,000,000 (2017-22) . . . Kyle Seager, $100,000,000 (2015-21) . . . Alex Bregman, $100,000,000 (2020-24) 126. Adam Wainwright, $97,500,000 (2014-18) 127. Pablo Sandoval, $95,000,000 (2015-19) 128. Clayton Kershaw, $93,000,000 (2019-21) 129. Josh Donaldson, $92,000,000 (2020-23) 130. Carlos Zambrano, $91,500,000 (2008-12) 131. Mike Piazza, $91,000,000 (1999-2005) 132. Chipper Jones, $90,000,000 (2001-06) . . . Barry Bonds, $90,000,000 (2002-06) . . . Scott Rolen, $90,000,000 (2003-10) . . . Torii Hunter, $90,000,000 (2008-12) . . . Ichiro Suzuki, $90,000,000 (2008-12) . . . Hunter Pence, $90,000,000 (2014-18) . . . Jeff Samardzija, $90,000,000 (2016-20) Remember inflation would move some of these guys on the bottom up significantly.

I'm not forgetting that, at all. My only point is that fans have been disgusted to varying levels over the years, due to losing beloved stars, and winning helped us get over it. This case is different in two ways: the disgust is as deep as I've felt since the Sullivan purges, and we haven't won after losing Betts and Bogey. 2021, helped a little on Betts, but if we don't win, soon, we may never get over this, just like I never got over losing Lynn, Burleson, Fisk and others from those great 70's teams.