moonslav59

I don't see it that way. I will argue about why we should have extended him till the cows come home, but it's a separate issue. Yes, the trade was a by-product of that choice, but the choice I complain about is the failure to extend. It's not 'defending the trade" to separate it from that other choice. Of course, 10+ years of Betts is way better than 4 from Dugo and 5 from Wong (plus what you could get for the money imbalance.)

He's actually too good and too expensive for Bloom to ever sign.

I sure wish we had kept Betts, somehow- some way. Not extending him is a separate issue from the trade, IMO. Once we decided to trade him, and I might add, he was nearly traded to LAD in the summer of 2019 under DD, the teams that could afford him were few and far between. The trade, essentially was this: 1 year of Betts, and that year was the shortened COVID season, where Betts posted a 2.9 fWAR. Dugo has posted a 7.0 fWAR in 4 years with BOS. The team went nowhere, so that looks like a failure, to some. Downs was a complete bust. Wong looks somewhat promising and had a 0.8 fWAR in his first 159 games in MLB. None of the three pitchers we got for Dugo look all that promising, but if we get one year of Duvall for $9M, that could be counted into the value of the return. The 2020 money "saved" by trading Betts should not be counted as having any value to the 2020 roster, because it was not replaced until 2021 or 2022, which is after the Betts control would have ended, had he stayed. Again, I was a big fan of keeping Betts. I even suggested paying him something like $400M/14 or 12. That's how much I wanted him here, but getting just a comp pick would have been worse.

He's projected to make about $9M or more in his final arb year in 2024. That should be enough to sign Duvall (AAV wise) or add that $9M to a final offer for a top SP'er and maybe it seals the deal. That being said, our 26 man roster looks worse, today than yesterday, but we know moves are yet to be made.

Sounds a bit like a "rift."

Agreed. He could also be the next Kluber or Richards- only on a longer and more costly deal.

MLBTR reports... The Red Sox are considering a number of position player targets, including a pair of outfielders. MLB Network’s Jon Morosi reports that the Sox are interested in Lourdes Gurriel Jr., KPRC’s Ari Alexander reports that Michael A. Taylor is another player of interest, and Boston is also looking at help behind the plate in Martin Maldonado, according to The Athletic’s Chandler Rome. (

I just said it is some evidence. I did not claim it proved a rift existed.

The results may be dragged out longer... Dugo gone- after giving us an 8.2 bWAR in 4 years. (7.0 fWAR) Downs gone Wong still here + 3 pitchers from NYY

Here's a wild trade suggestion that was actually called a minor overpay by the Sox on BTV: Mayer, Crawford & Mata for Burnes, Yelich, Adames & $55M (No way would MIL take this, I know.) Burnes would be our instant ace. Yelich fill the CF hole. (Rafaela/Abreu/Ref in RF) Adames at SS Story to 2B fills the other big hole. 3 of our biggest needs filled in one outlandish trade.

Benching him was some evidence.

According to cots, we went from about $54M to $63M on budget space under the first tax line. $83M to the second line. We do have a new hole to fill, too, unless we plan on using what we have. That might look like: LF: Duran/ Refsnyder (Maybe Yoshida when Duran is in CF or RF and we are facing a RHP.) CF: Rafaela (Abreu/Duran) RF: Abreu (Refsnyder/Duran) More likely, we sign Duvall at maybe a $7-9M AAV (1-2 yrs) and go with this... LF: Duran/Refsnyder CF: Rafaela/Abreu (one may start the season in AAA) RF: Duvall

NY returned the favor we gave them with Ottavino.

Monty, Stroman and Lugo.

Yamo & Lugo would please me. Monty, Stroman (or ERod/Imanaga) & Lugo would, too.

I'm fine with Lugo for 2 years. If ends up back in the pen, he should be fine at age 34 and 35. Giolito is young enough to think a bounce back is possible. He turns 30 in July.

I'm guessing Brez likes what he sees about one of these guys, or he did not like Dugo, much. The salary dump makes sense, but Dugo still had a +4.8 value on BTV, despite the 9.2 projected salary. That means they think his skill value is about $15M as a player. Maybe we can use the $9.2M more wisely, but that remains to be seen.

So, ??? in LF or Judge in CF with Dugo in RF? I would think Dugo in RF in NY is a better fit for him, so maybe they move guys around. It might depend on who the 3rd OF'er will be. If it's Soto, I'd think Soto in left, Judge in center and Dugo in right.

He should hit more HRs in NY.

Yes. He's actually soon to be 29. My bad.

I'm assuming Weissert has options remaining.

Judice is from Louisiana-Monroe, where he had a 10.5 K/9 rate and a 4.0 BB/9 rate. 4.09 ERA and 1.207 WHIP as a RP'er In summer leagues, he posted a 4.55 ERA, 1.52 WHIP and 12.4:6.4 K/BB per 9. He's 22. Fitts will be 24, soon. He went to Auburn and has been a SP'er all along. A+ 0.55 ERA/ 0.606 WHIP in 33 IP in 2022 AA 3.48 ERA/1.14 WHIP in 152 IP in 2023. 9.6 K/9 & 2.5 BB/9 Weissert turns 28 soon. (RP only) AA 1.47/1.01 in 37 IP ('19-'21) 11.8:4.4 K/9: BB/9 AAA 2.16/1.03 in 125 IP ('21-'23) 12.1:4.2 MLB 4.60/1.28 in 31 IP ('22-'23) 9.5K:3.7 BB per 9

Wow! We didn't even get a LH'd RP'er. I'll admit, I know nothing about the 3 returning players/prospects, so I'll reserve judgment, for now. Maybe some of these young pitchers will be flipped in another trade or will allow us to trade some of our young pitchers as part of a larger package for better ML talent.

If we sign Giolito, I'll lose some faith in Brez.

The Expos went 81-81> 81-81>85-77 to 71-90 his last year in MON. If that is "okay," you should be thrilled with Bloom's record. Montreal, also went from 7th lowest payroll to 12th lowest in his 2nd and third year, which indicates he was allowed to spend more than his first year. With the Marlins, he was allowed to spend a lot. 27th in their first & second years in MLB (1993-5) 17th in his 4th season 7th in the 1997 championship season. He spent big on several FAs. When the team cut payroll, like the Sox did after 2019, the Marlins went... 54-108 64-98 79-83 76-86 They never reached .500, when he was not allowed to spend. Okay, he built up the foundation, but nobody wants to hear that about Bloom, now. He, then joined the Tigers. That team was in rebuild mode, as they were 66-96 (20th highest payroll) the year before he took over. The Tigers went... 55-106 in 2002 (19th in payroll) 43-119 in '03 (25th in payroll- showing it's hard for him to win w/o spending, too) 72-90 (23rd in '04) 71-91 (15th in '05) The spending larger had begun, followed by winning... 95-67 (lost WS) 14th in spending is not mega spending, but he did sign a couple FAs) 88-74 (9th in '07) Spent more than '06 and went backwards. 74-88 (3RD IN SPENDING and a losing record.) 86-77 (5th in spending) 81-81 (6th in 2010) 95-67 (lost 1st rd) 10th in spending 88-74 (lost WS) 5th in Spending gets him to the WS. 93-69 (lost 1st rd) 5th 90-72 (lost 1st rd) 5th 74-87 (4th in spending, and he was canned in AUG of 2015.) Did his time in DET prove he can win without spending large? Please, don't take this as dissing DD. I love the job he did with the Sox and have zero regrets. He gave us the best 3 years in a row in my lifetime. I am just not convinced he could have done wonders with the 2020 team and budget. Better than Bloom? Sure/maybe. Better in 2021? Maybe. Better in 2022 and 2023? Probably.