moonslav59

Their contracts were running out, and the budget was the highest ever in 2019. We chose to extend Sale, Nate and Bogey with an opt out. Price & JD were on the books until '22. Porcello, Kimbrell & Kelly gone after '19 and not replaced. Age Player yrs of control after 2019: 22 Devers 4 24 Beni 3 (was traded) 26 ERod 2 26 Betts 1 (was traded) 26 Bogey 0 (extended) 28 Vaz 3 29 JBJ 1 (Not many younger pitchers) Like I said, we could have tried to keep the window open 1-2 years longer, or at least 2019, but chose not to. 2019 was our peak salary year, and the downturn was in place, already, though.

If we miss out on all the big contract pitchers, might we spend some of the budget space on a decent player who is overpaid? BTV AFV/Salary/Surplus MIA 103/46/+58 Garrett SP (5 yrs) 91/28/+63 Luzardo SP (3) 33/8/+25 Rogers SP (3) 32/16/+16 ECabrera SP (5) 26/9/+15 AJ Puk RP (3) 14/9/+5 Berti UT (2) PIT 89/39/+50 O Cruz SS(5 yrs) a48/15/+33 M Keller SP (2) 47/24/+24 Bednar RP (3) 89 LAA 178/249/-70 Trout CF 92/47/+45 Detmers SP (4 yrs) 17/26/-9.0 Sandoval (2 yrs) MIL 96/137/-41 Yelich CF (5 yrs) 49/15/+34 Burnes SP (1 yr) CLE 126/126/0 Gimenez 2B/SS (7 yrs) 18/12/+6 Bieber (1) WSH 79/33/+47 Abrams SS (5) 60/30/+30 Gore SP (4) KCR 12/44/-32 S Perez C (2) 47/24/23 Singer SP (3) DET 15/98/-83 J Baez SS/2B (4) MIN 146/192/-48 Correa SS (6) 51/28/+23 B Ober SP (4) 32/23/+9 Polanco 2B (2) SEA 138/122/+17 Luis Castillo (5 yrs) 108/42/+66 Gilbert SP (4 yrs) TBR 38/25/13 Glasnow SP (1) 53/29/+24 Eflin SP (2) CWS 145/68/+77 L Roberts (4) '62/22/+40 Cease SP (2) I'm sure there are more...

Sox sign pitcher to MLB contract!!!! https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2023/12/red-sox-cooper-criswell-agree-to-major-league-contract.html

I'm fine with keeping the 3 top prospects, but Monty Cabrera and Drury is a punt. Our OF would be LF Duran- Ref (Yoshi) CF O'Neill (Duran) RF Abreu (Ref) Ugh- LEE

I'm okay trading Mayer, but only as the piece that puts us near or over the top, not as the only major addition to the rotation.

I thought the window could have been extended to 2020, but that eventually, the house of cards would collapse. Not bringing Kimbrell or Kelly back, and not even trying to replace them was the sign the pendulum was swinging back side. Hell, they nearly traded Betts in the summer of '19, which would have changed the whole DD and Bloom legacy thing, to some extent.

You are missing my point. All 30 teams could spend way more than they do. Some make way more than others, in revenue, and yes, you'd expect them to spend more, but that is not how business works. I'm not implying LAD, NYM and TEX are going to lose money. I already mentioned how LAD mint money from their TV deal. I can still call spending $700M on a DH and 2 TJS pitcher "bonkers." It's not an absurd thought. I'm also not saying it is wrong for fans to expect us to pay more, because we charge more, but my point is, we are not entitled to that. It's not about some righteous moral clause only for the Sox on not paying, and besides, we are paying more than most teams, and some by far. The Devers deal hasn't even kicked in. How do I disagree on the Sox management not meeting fan expectation. I agree 100%. I've been saying they are scamming fans, and this has all been a sham. My point is Sox fans are not entitled to more spending just because we think they should and that we pay more than others or tickets. Any one of these owners could spend like the top 3 and not go broke. You think just because we pay the highest ticket prices, JH is obligated to spend more than everyone, or close to it? Just for one thing, he doesn't have a big stadium to fill or a TV contract like LA & NY. Why is ticket prices the one criteria used for justification? Look, I understand. If I was paying the highest prices, I'd expect higher value on the field. One reason we have not been winning is about not spending what otehrs have been doing recently, but we've also been mismanaged. We've also chosen wrong players to invest in. We've chosen to build for the longer term over the instant gratification plan. It's not just the money. $300M for Devers is one of MLB's highest salaries, even counting the contracts from this winter.

If we end up trading for two SP'ers, unless they have hefty contracts, we'll be leaving a lot of money under the tax line in 2024. Who is out there that is worthwhile to sign (or salary dump trade) to play 2B, C, RF or what? I'm very concerned about trading for Burnes and not extending him at a reasonable cost. It just makes more sense to overpay on one of the big 3 remaining.

I think every fan deserves a chance to see his team win. Yes, I agree, if your team charges more and makes more money, you can expect them to have a higher player budget, but that's not reality in business. You get what the boss pays, or you move on, if you can find something. I don't think we are any more entitled to all that much more than others. BTW, I feel we are acting like a big market team- just not the 2-3 ones that have gone bonkers. We just extended Devers to $300M. How many teams have a $300M player on the roster, and this after spending $240M on Yoshi and Story in the same short time frame? I think we can win while still being in the 4-10 range of team budgets, but who knows? I'm not trying to say I am content losing and watching all the best players sign elsewhere. It SUCKS! I just don't think we should feel entitled to Yamo any more than a handful of other teams or even the low budget teams. What? Their fans should not feel entitled, because they have not been spending much, all along? Because they can get a bleacher seat for $15 to watch crap?

Better GMs- better choices. Farm pipeline for the big club and/or trading. I think there has been a willingness to go that extra step, when the window seems to be open wide. I'm not sure, if that is gone and JH has changed, OR JH just hasn't felt we are close enough to take the checkbook plunge. I thought 2022 was a good time for it, as Bogey, JD and Nate's times were up. I thought maybe 2023 would be the splurge year. I've given up expecting it to happen. I still hope it does, but I won't believe it until it happens.

That's what you said in 2014.

Ask anyone on my corner: I'm the biggest Sox fan that ever existed. I watch just every play of every game every year, except when I went away to college. I want them to win every single game. I cried in '75. I went through 30 years of near Hell. I used to claim I'd take 10 straight last place finishes for just one ring, and I meant it. Once we won, I admit, I got spoiled and wanted more and more. there was a long time in my life- nearly half of it, where my bones ached for just one ring. That is not the same as looking at MLB and sports, in general and seeing the overall picture. Every fan in every city hopes their team wins a ring. Only one of 30 does, each year. I want us to win 10 in a row, but I do not feel entitled to even one more. I hope we win another, before I croak. I think we will. I'm not sure when, but I'm not going to be a dick, if we don't. "Lacking in passion." Good one. I get pissed when we lose. I get super excited when we win. I don't think feeling entitled equals being passionate. I'm not Robinhood trying to spread the glory. I want us to win every year. You don't watch every play of every game unless you have a boatload of passion.

No, the one who keeps watching his favorite team, no matter what.

Maybe we find some team willing to trade a young Sp'er with 3-5 years of team control. Otherwise, we'll have to fork over a ton of money to extend the guy, so why not just overpay for a FA pitcher and save the prospects for another time or trade?

There goes one fall back option for our second best SP'er to obtain this winter.

I've never felt the majority makes anything true. I certainly don't think one person's view on what he feels the majority believes carries any weight. For all I know, his Big Corner is the corner of Sesame Street and Romper Room Avenue.

I want that, too. I don't expect it, anymore, and we don't have a right to win, again, anymore than at least half the teams in MLB or more.

What does that even mean on The Big Corner?

I said, maybe we should spend up to the line and beyond, but why doesn't every team? I get how we make more money than most, and maybe our owner is richer than most, but every owner can afford to spend to the line. If they all did, we'd expect JH to spend much more, and then more and more. I hope every company owner spends more on his/her employees, but I don't expect it to happen. I'm not making excuses. These guys have shammed us by lying and lying- promising and promising. They have spent more than most teams fort as long as I can remember. Now we want more? I totally expect our GM to be good enough to get us to winning with our budgets. They have not for 5 years. I like the longer term future outlook. I think we can win, again. I think we can win in 2024 or 2025, if a major investment is made, but I don't expect it.

Some of these teams have not seen revenue jumps that match their spending jumps, percentage wise. I'm thinking NYM and TEX. The Dodgers mint money from their TV contract. They are in a class by themselves.

I hope we do. I don't expect it. I don't demand it. Maybe we should spend to the tax line and maybe go to the second one, every now and then. Maybe 2 years in a row when "in a window," but it's not for me to demand JH do it. Okay, he does not have to spend to the level of lunacy for us to compete, and we should have won more than we did by spending what we did after 2018. I agree.

LMAO! I certainly prefer to watch us win more than we lose, and win an occasional ring, but I will always watch and root for the Sox- no matter what. I don't go to games much, anymore. I don't by jerseys. I don't expect us to win every 5 years, or even 10 or 15. I hope we do. I think we can and should, if we spend top 6-12, every year. I'll be upset when we don't. That's about it.

No doubt. On a lesser level, we let Kimbrell and Kelly go with no contingency, and the wheels began to come off. My point was, we won before while letting top stars go. That cannot be the only reason we aren't winning, now. It's a combo of... letting stars go without replacing them in kind or even close to in kind. cutting the budget radically, then talking 3 years to get back to the 2018-2019 level. poor decisions on building up the 26 man roster. concentrating more on the 40 and farm than the 26. going for quantity over quality. an emphasis on oft-injured players... I'm sure I missed some major factors.

So, that means we have to spend more than everyone else? The Dodgers make a mint off their TV deal, does that count? Other teams have larger stadiums with more seats. Look, I'm not arguing we don't have reasons to spend more, or that JH should not. My point is about a general sense of entitlement. We've been a top of top 3-5 spending team for much of the last 2 decades or longer, and few teams pass us to knock us down to #12th or 14th, and we expect JH to join the lunacy, or he has to go.

His big signings have not paid off, either (yet.) The Schwarber trade was good. The Pivetta trade was mentioned. Abreu and EValdez for 2 months of Vaz looks good. McGuire for a salary dump was okay. Wink for Beni & Gambrell might work out well. He's had a few bad ones, too, especially JBJ.