moonslav59

Let's assume the $73M is correct. We could non tender Urias and get under the second tax line. Or, we could trade Dugo for a $4-5M LH's RP'er and get under, as well. I seriously doubt we go all in like this, but to me, this is what I would call "aggressive," and not signing one big pitcher and Duvall, Wacha and a LH RP and/or Frazier.

Is that really what any of us see as "aggressive?"

I also value OBP more than SLG. I think a better stat would be 3 x OBP + 2 x SLG/5. Bobby Dee had very good OBPs in the minors but just cannot get that to work in the bigs. It's not uncommon for big K guys. He still has time to improve on that, but I do not think it will be with the Sox, if anyone.

I don't think anyone has said we will "only" spend on pitching. IMO, if we only spend $35-49M, this winter, I'd like to see almost all of it go to the rotation, but I do not think that would happen. If we spend $50-70M, I'd like to see one RHB (CF or 2B) added and maybe a 2B or CF/RF'er as well, but the rest should go to the rotation- maybe 75-80% of the $50-70M. Again, I'm not expecting or counting on anything. I do think they need to follow through on the promise of being aggressive, this winter, but aggressive could mean one major SP'er signing and someone like Duvall, Frazier, Wacha and a LH RP. Like I said, I'll believe it when I see it. I don't see why we can't afford Yamamoto, Montgomery, Wacha and Duvall. Trade Dugo for a LH RP or 2Bman (nontender Urias.)

I'm not sure they can ever get there, again, as long as they keep their rigorous academic levels.

You missed my point. I want us to spend $70M and keep Pivetta and maybe Urias. I'm fine with trading Dugo. My suggestion has been to trade top prospects for one excellent SP'er on top of spending $50-70M, so how is that espousing mediocrity? I want 3 SP'ers not 2. It is you asking for just two that is looking more like "mediocrity" than my ideas. I'm just not sure JH will allow such a budget. I like Pivetta. He is not a mediocre 5th SP'er or long RP. He's one of the best. I'm not relying on Sale, like you are. That plan is asking for trouble. I'd be okay with Kutter as the #5 and Pivetta in long relief, but I'd flip the two. My rotation would be far from mediocre: 1. Yamamoto, Nola or Gray 2. Gray or Montgomery (maybe Morton on a 1 yr deal) 3. Bello 4. Wacha (or Morton) 5. Pivetta/Sale Hardly seeking meciocrity.

I think the question is :How aggressive?" Counting the Devers extension, last winter, one could view that winter as "aggressive," which is was, even if you factor in all the salaries lost, but it wasn't close to aggressive enough. Is spending $50M per season more in new contracts going to be enough? I think we need to be closer to $70M.

Pivetta is worth $8M, so I would not subtract him or trade him. Trading Verdugo for no added salary is possible, but then we have a new hole to fill. (Yes, the RHB can fill it. Duvall?) Urias is a close call, to me. He was very good just 2 years ago. He's not old. $5M could be a bargain. I think we need to just go over the tax line and up close to the 2nd line. That is close to $70M- $80M, if we trade Dugo for no salary. Yes, that should be enough for SP1, SP2, RHB and a 3rd SP or 2Bman + LH RP. Yes, stop dicking around with scrimping and saving. Easy for us to say, and I'll believe it when I see it.

I'm not sure why OBP is the definer, here, but Dalbec did not really play FT before or after AUG. Over the season, he started 63 games vs LHPs and 52 vs RHPs. He had almost the same PAs v LHPs (230) and RHPs (223.) I'll take your word for it, that a big shift happened in August, but here are his monthly PA totals: 76 APR 74 May 82 June 64 July (long AS break) 72 Aug 85 Sept (most of any month) He did have one long stretch of .300+ OBPs, but just not a full month: .307 by taking away his first 2 games of June (JUN5-JUN30) OBP has been his big issue once reaching the bigs. Too many Ks was his problem in the minors, too, but he walked a lot, there.

You assume going over meant Bloom had millions more to spend. I don't. Not many felt 1B was our highest or second highest need area on opening day.

Hartman has fallen apart. He had no INTs in his first 6-7 games, and now has 7.

Yes, I know. This silly debate has gone on way too long. There will be many teams that want him. All will want one year. I think some team will offer him two, so they get him. You and others disagree.

Hurray for you! I have no problem saying you were right. That does not change the fact that I felt Dalbec, Casas and Shaw was not a bad plan to start 2022 at 1B, especially when you consider we had high needs at many positions and only so much money to spend on them all. We could have robbed Peter to pay Paul, and you'd be complaining about the other position, now.

Duvall is way better than many OF'ers, so teams will want him as an upgrade and pray for health. It happens all the time. Not every team will get the pitcher they need, so they will look for other areas to upgrade... like OF.

It does not help that he sucks on D. While his splist vs RHPs is not great, it's not so low that it makes him a lost cause. He would not need to improve by much more than 75 points to be okay on offense. (He is at .855 vs LHPs.) He is .678 career vs RHP, but he averaged about 30 Hrs per 650 v RHPs with a respectable 82 RBIs. I don't see him getting another chance with the Sox, and filling up a 40 man roster slot may not make any sense, going forward.

Bad loss. I'm not sure why we went away from the running game, and Hartman sucked, today.

I'm pretty sure nearly all of us view the rotation as our highest need area for 2024. The need for 2 or 3 has been debated, and it seems unlikely we add 3 significant SP'ers, this winter. (I'd love to see it, as it would make our pen one of the best in MLB, but I think it is a long shot hope.) IMO, these are our highest need areas, this winter- listed in order of highest need: 1. SP1 2. SP2 3. Power RHB (CF, 2B or RF, if we trade Dugo) 4. 2B or CF/RF (whichever #3 does not fill.) 5. SP3 6. LH RP (Upgrade C or the last of the 3 slots mentioned in #3 and #4.) If we have $45-50M to spend, things will be way too tight to meet most of these needs, unless we make a big prospect trade. If we have $65-70M to spend to stay under the second tax line, we might be able to pull it off by filling 4-5 of these 6 slots with quality players or 3-4 with quality and 2-3 with decent upgrades- filling all 6 slots.) FA signings might be... 1. Gray 2. Montgomery 3. Duvall 4. Merrifield/A Frazier 5. Wacha 6. Nick Martinez/Wandy Peralta I doubt we can get all this for $70M. Either we go over the $70M mark, make a big prospect trade, sign lesser cost players or fill just 3-5 of these slots.

Clemson is coming alive vs ND. It's not over, yet, but it is not looking good for the Irish.

Yes. I know. I think that is the minimum he gets, but I still think the odds are slightly better he gets 2 years. I'm not sure why the odds on 1 or 2 years for Duvall is becoming a long running topic of debate.

We got Shaw on AUG 15, 2021. Dalbec "took off" on May 13. He was doing pretty good before the Shaw addition: .809 May 13 to Aug 14. (but 1.375 the 2 weeks before the trade.) But, he did "take off," afterwards: .970 Aug 15 to end of season. Shaw sucked in ST'ing '21 and looked totally lost to start the ML season. They tried Cordero before Casas. Then, Casas got hurt.

Yes, I remember several posters wondering about Dalbec, but Casas was considered ML ready or very near ML readi. His untimely injury in late May killed the depth plan. Personally, I don't see the 1B plan going into the season as a blunder. I thought several other positions were higher need areas. I wasn't thrilled about 1B, but with a guy like Casas in the wings, it looked pretty "safe."

I think it's close to 50-50. I'd say better than 50-50, but not by much. I project $18-19M/2. Most likely, he gets a 2nd year option, maybe with a $2M buyout. $8.5M 2024 with $9.5M team option- with a $1.5M buyout. Basically, $10M/1 or $18M/2 might get him.

I wasn't trying to justify or excuse the use of players out of position. I was actually trying to add to the list and the idea that he went overboard. I still "blame Bloom" for creating rosters that forced these odd positional shifts.

You have pointed out, many times, how it is not easy to make trades in May and June. We started the 2022 season with Bobby Dee at 1B. While he had a horrific 2021 playoffs, his career OPS, at the time, was .819 (545 PAs is rather significant.) He had also just ended the 2021 season with a 103 game and 345 PA stretch at an .867 OPS (23 HRs & 67 RBI which projects to 43 HRs and 126 RBI over 650 PAs) It's hard for me to think it was a blunder plan to start 2021, and once the season started, it was not hard to think maybe Dalbec was just off to another slow start and would "heat up" at any minute. When it became clear he was not going to, Casas got hurt. In 2021, Dalbec started heating up on May 13th. I think giving him until about June 1st, before giving up. Casas was hurt on May 17th. Was someone available to trade for? Cordero sucked, and Hosmer did nothing to help. Granted, Bloom got the 3rd and 4th string 1B plan wrong. I don't see that as a major blunder, planwise. The 2023 SS plan was a disaster.

No. Turner was on the original list, and he played 2B with LAD quite a bit.