moonslav59

Is thinking the idea that there was not a higher offer out there, but there was an example of "botching?" If that's your definition then okay, he likely "botched it," but to me it's only a botch, if you were prepared to go higher and win the negotiations but outsmarted/dumbed yourself and missed out on a guy you would have paid more for, okay maybe, bt even then, I'm not sure the term "botch" or "bungle" fits. They called a bluff and lost. If they were never going to go higher or make other concessions,then it doesn't matter. To me, that's the point. People can feel free to focus on other points, but to me trying to guess if an agent is bluffing is common occurrences and not necessarily a GM's botch, if they misguess. Does anybody have a shred of evidence that says Brez could have offered more or given any concessions to top the Cubs' offer?

Came around? My position has not changed one bit. 1. I'm not certain Brez botched anything. 2. Neither are you. 3. If he did, it's concerning, but may not have mattered anyway, if we were never going to up the offer, add a no trade clause or defer less money- whichever might have been needed to get Breggie to yes. I still feel the exact was as before. I never said "all accounts" were wrong. Not even close. Please don't become like the mind-misreading Ole Red.

Yes, I was surprised.

Often differing reports come out years later. Certain parties may never reveal what really happened, especially the ones in the know.

Well, for one thing, there was never an "all accounts" storyline, except maybe in Red's world. I guess it didn't really change recently when Betts made some statements about being surprised when he was traded and how he really wanted to stay in BOS, but as time goes by there are often new tidbits of information from other or new sources that give another side of the story.

I feel like the level of player we need at 2B or 3B necessitates giving high value to get return high value. Of the 4 OF'ers, dues to years of control and all around skill levels, I think Duran ends up being the one most likely to be traded. The rotational depth is harder to rank, and the lower rank means lower return in value. I'm not for trading Bello, but for the right return, I would. I'd rather trade Crawford, Sandoval, oviedo or Harrison to Tolle or Early, but I doubt we can get a good enough infielder for one of them.

Look how often the whole Betts situation was "reported." The narrative changed several times, and did just recently, once again. Why should I believe accounts, even if it looks like "all accounts."

Agreed. We will not be adding 2 infielders, unless mayer is traded, and that's not happening either. My point was on adding Paredes and Suarez. Even then, if an OF'er was traded for Paredes, Suarez would DH, Paredes at 3B and Mayer at 2B (or Mayer 3B/Paredes 2B.)

I'm really not sure what to think on Shaw and Baty.

They said this was the only time they ever chose the later date. They wanted a weekday.

Same ole - same ole rag.

No. See how easy it is to actually answer.

The idea is that we if we could get to even on offense - not "losses"- maybe the pitching boosts us high enough.

BTV has Mayer worth more, but I disagree with that. 0.001% chance we get him, but maybe somebody is out there we don't know about. I used to think KMarte was the only solution.

The opt out made the no trade clause less important, last year. I happen to think it was an essential aspect of Breggie's demands. I could be wrong. If we could never give that to him, then the rest is kinda moot. (It still matters, if Brez is a clown, and it could matter the next close talks we are in, but in this case, Breggie was a goner, when we said no to the no trade clause.) The same might be said about the deferred money. That might have been an unmovable object on JH's demand. Maybe not.

I'm deeply concerned about our offense, but I also think we should not undersell the fact that teams can win in a variety of ways, and we greatly improved our rotation. I know some think rotations are over-rated, and maybe I am one who thinks they are worth more than they really are. While Contreras is certainly no Big Papi or Manny or even JD or Devers, he is a decent offensive player. While he's a little older than Breggie, he's done way better in the last 3-4 years than Bregman, and yet all we hear about is losing Bregman, how we lost Bregman and Willson is hardly mentioned. Last 3 years: .817 Contreras (127 OPS+)/ .796 Bregman(121)/ .827 Alonso (130) Last 2 years: .813 Contreras (129 OPS+)/.791 Bregman (121)/ .830 Alonso (133) Of course, I'd rather have Alonso than Willson, but he's still pretty good, but you hardly ever talk about him, unless we point it out to you. He's better than Abreu and Casas, who you mentioned. Duran has better numbers, too. No, we don't have the bat to protect Anthony. We didn't last year, and he did okay. Don't say Breggie protected him, because Willson is close enough to Breggie. We agree we need a bat. We need a 2B/3Bman, too. This one is cheaper, and so this is the one we fill before day one, IMO.

Exactly, and if we assume the Sox model of not budging from their top offer was in play, we were likely never going to get Breggie as long as the Cubs offered what Brez was not allowed to offer and never would have been, even if he did everything right. Bloom got serious grief for bidding against himself on Masa. It's not always easy to know when that is happening. In hindsight, we all think, how can you not have known. Now, in hindsight, we are saying he should have known it was not a csae of bidding against himself.

Assuming all accounts are 100% accurate, my point is that as long as Brez was not allowed to budge on the no trade clause, any "botching" didn't matter- this time, but would still be concerning. Maybe the no trade clause could have been overlooked by Breggie, if he had felt respected, and Brez gave back some on the deferred money, but if Brez has no leeway on that, I come to the same "the botching didn't matter in this case," because the Cubs would have gotten him no matter what, and again, I'd still be concerned about Brez's techniques interfering with future signings, especially those I think are worth overpaying for. I am fully open to the idea Brez made some mistakes on this and likely several other talks. IMO, we were never going to give what the Cubs gave, and that the reasons were not of Brez's choices. That does not put him above criticism for things he did wrong, but I don't think Breggie was going to be a Sox, as long as that Cubs offer was out there.

I'm thinking it very likely happened. I wonder if it mattered.

While I see no indication the Twins might part with Keaschall, would he fit the bill? (We can't trade Mayer for him, unless we later trade an OF'er for a 3Bman like Paredes.) To me, Keaschall and Paredes would put us top 3, even if we lost Mayer plus an OF'er or Tolle.

Would Paredes (2B) and Suarez (3B) be enough? I know that's not happening, but... (Mayer would be in AAA.)

To be honest, I don't know much about other team's players, except by looking at stats and BTV values, years of control and AAV. Shaw looks very promising and is just 24. I think he has 5 years of control. Gotta love that, as long as he's good. We thought Jeter Downs might/would be good. We thought Grissom might/would be good. Baty has 4 years of control. I'd rather have a RHB, but he shows promise, too I'm pretty big on Tolle, and I'd still prefer to trade an OF'er for an infielder, but I'd probably do it, if I felt either of these two was going be valuable.

Just don't tell Fred we signed someone else's UT guy.

or if it might not be true.

While I do think it matters if a GM is turning off players to the point where they sign somewhere else out of disgust, uneasiness or because they feel like the other team appreciates them more, and maybe Brez caused some of this to happen. Maybe it influenced Breggie's choice- maybe it didn't. If it did, then "by all accounts he botched the talks" has merit. To me, Bregman did not fill the "big bat" need, but he's certainly better than DHam in the line-up. Contreras is better than Toro, but he did not fill the big bat need, either. We still need a big bat. We still need a 2B/3Bman. We will likely just get one- the 2B/3Bman. Two possible choices might be: Paredes: .around .800 and maybe an average fielder at best. Donovan: around .775 and a decent defensive 2Bman who can play other infield positions decently. That being said, chance are Brez gets someone nobody mentioned.