Maxbialystock

I am certainly capable of letting perception take over at the expense of reality. But, I say again, the simple fact is that Kimbrel gave up runs on 3 different occasions in this crucial month and Uehara has given up none. I would still use Kimbrel as my closer because he has the best stuff and because Uehara turns out to be a terrific set up man and we don't have many starters who can go 8 good innings. So we need both of them. Plus Ziegler and Kelly and a good lefty (Ross? Abad? Pomeranz?).

I suppose that's a fair accusation--impugning Kimbrel's character--but my point is that Kimbrel only seems effective when he is in for a save. I prefer Uehara because he just goes out there and pitches without the showmanship and is fine with going out for a hold or even to get us through an inning when the Sox are 1 behind. Uehara doesn't have nearly the "stuff" that Kimbrel has, but he does have command of his pitches.

I wouldn't call it a tossup, but it's close enough to be a reasonable approach when facing Kimbrel. However, I truly believe his fast ball is hittable even at 100 mph if the batter is sure that's what is coming. Kimbrel must have the knuckle curve working to be effective. Wright has an OK fastball that works, but only if his knuckleball is working. Of course, Wright doesn't need any other pitches when his knuckler is working, which means in the strike zone or close enough to get swings. I believe Kimbrel needs both pitches working even though that knuckle curve is pretty darn good by itself.

Moncada to Arizona is the right move even though very recently I said I would keep him for his speed.

I love moonslav's numbers, but would not only agree with Nick about the 3 days off. I would also note that Farrell had no choice to play his best guys more. Besides, Pedey is 11th in plate appearances and seems full of energy (or at least desire).

The most sensible thing I've read on Kimbrel is what S5Dewey wrote, that opposing managers should tell their hitters to take the first two pitches from Kimbrel because he could walk them and because, if he is throwing strikes, he is hard to hit.

In. Happy Smiley-Beni day!

So will I. Toronto is one of those nasty ALE teams. Their 4th place team has a winning record.

Boy, do I hope you are right and I am dead wrong.

You always make sensible posts, so I would love to agree with you on this. But I can't. First and foremost, when you think of closers, think or our own Uehara in 2013 or even, 3 years later and age 41, this month. That's what you need. Not a prima donna who can't pitch well when he isn't in for a save, who can blow up and simply not find the plate, and who gave up runs in 3 different games this month already. He could still do fine in the playoffs because he has great stuff when he is on. But he sure seems to be slipping backward this month and Farrell would be wise to have a backup in mind whenever he sends Kimbrel to the mound.

ARe you serious? Kimbrel is all about style points. He preens himself when he is on the mound, and he doesn't want to be out there for anything other than save. I entirely agree he has great stuff when he is on and that he has had a pretty good season. But he has not had a good September, and it is a simple fact that his weakness is control. I could be wrong, but I honestly don't think he ever tries to hit the corners but simply aims for the middle of the strike zone and hopes that his stuff will suffice, which it usually does. I also believe he will continue to close if only because he will refuse to do anything else. He is that much of a prima donna. Or, if he doesn't refuse to do something besides close, he will do it poorly because he will lack motivation.

Very sensible. I might add that those three days of rest should have made tonight's night off unnecessary.

Are you kidding? I wasn't just being sarcastic, I was downright venomous. Everything I'm seeing tonight pisses me off, especially because it is the 3d straight loss. I freely admit I am over-reacting, but I hate to see the Sox play with such a demonstrably lackadaisical attitude. Have they earned a "night off?" Sure they have. It's been a long, hard season and they came up aces in September with the 11 game winning streak. But right now they are pissing me off. It doesn't help that last night Kimbrel crapped all over himself. Or that two nights ago Price gave up 6 earned runs. Or that the team, especially Ortiz, has simply stopped hitting. Or that tonight Ross threw 32 pitches, 16 of them strikes, to get just 2 outs while loading the bases and giving up the 5th run. Or that Hembree gave up 2 runs.

Good game to just sit back and enjoy because there is no chance the Sox are going to win tonight. They just won the ALE while losing, so why not just keep on losing? Stupid Yankees seem to want to win even though they are out of it. Nope. That's not the Sox way. Move Benintendi up to batting 2d so he can strike out a little more. Heck, Bogaerts can do it too. Didn't Sabathia get him on 3 pitches right after the at bat when he got the dinger? And who's that leading off? Hill. I mean, how perfect is that. This is the right way to get ready for the playoffs. Nice and relaxed. Resting players. No tension on the bench. I mean, who really gives a s***? Isn't this Ortiz's third straight hitless game? The hitting stinks. The pitching stinks. Everyone's in a groove. I think I see a six game losing streak leading into the playoffs. What could be better?

JF gets a pass because he used that game to see if Kimbrel could recover from the bad start. He could not. As you say, next time Kimbrel gets the hook earlier even if he is the presumed closer. And let's not forget that prima donna Kimbrel doesn't even want to go to the mound unless it's a save opportunity. Plus somebody on this thread actually said last night wasn't his fault because it wasn't an important enough save so Kimbrel didn't have enough adrenaline. Laughable.

Fine. Here's the short version. The bullpen, with the single exception of Kimbrel, has been terrific in September, the most important month in terms of getting to and preparing for the playoffs. Kimbrel alone has had problems three different times in September, giving up a total of 6 runs. Uehara has given up 0, Ziegler 1 unearned run, and Kelly 1 earned run. Kimbrel was horrible last night but also horrible August 9 when he walked 4 guys in the 9th--but Barnes saved him with a critical K. Kimbrel should continue to close, but with a shorter leash than heretofore.

Sorry, but I can't buy the adrenaline argument for the simple reason that adrenaline is more likely to make you lose control. Focus and a calm state of mind are what contribute to control, not adrenaline. Any sports psychiatrist can tell you that. Besides, my point is that Kimbrel gave up 1 run or more on three different occasions in September. I might add that his only having two blown saves is kind of bogus because it's a fact that on August 9 he walked 4 guys in the 9th, but the Sox still won because Barnes came in and got the final out, a K. On Kimbrel's side, I think, is that, when he is on, he is very hard to hit because the combo of the knuckle curve and the fast ball keeps hitters off balance. I think he will continue to close, but maybe with a shorter leash.

Back to Kimbrel (and of course longwindness). I beg to differ with those who say we can safely ignore last night and here's why-- 1. Overall the bullpen has been great in September, but I emphasize it's greatness in a collective sense. There can be little doubt that it's been the bullpen and Farrell's willingness to use it that has overall made September wildly successful. 2. I myself have singled out 4 guys--Kimbrel, Uehara, Ziegler, and, believe it or not, Kelly--as giving Farrell a variety of options in the final 3 innings. 3. But here's the grabber. In September, an absolutely crucial month in terms of getting into the playoffs and at the same time preparing for them, only 3 of those 4 have been consistently good. You can look it up as I did. Uehara, Ziegler, and Kelly have all pitched multiple times and innings in September and have given up just 1 earned run--Kelly's gopher ball last night--in the entire freaking month. Ziegler gave up an unearned run in early September, and Uehara of course none. 4. Kimbrel, however, has give up 6 runs in September--4 last night and 1 each on two other occasions. So Farrell is now in the weird situation of having a closer--a very dramatic closer, I might add--who is actually the weak link in the bullpen especially when compared to Uehara, Ziegler, and Kelly. Moreover, the drama queen, unlike the other three, doesn't do windows. He isn't interested in getting a hold or in pitching at all unless it is for a save.

I've actually had pretty good success but deep down agree with you completely. Plus my OP's are invariably longwinded.

You only have to watch Kimbrel pitch maybe half a dozen games to know his strengths and weaknesses. His strengths are he has great stuff--a combo of a blazing fastball and a sharp breaking curve--that put him among the AL closer leaders in K's. His one big weakness is control, which puts him among the AL closer leaders in walks. In games I've watched he rarely paints the corners and instead relies on that deadly combo of curve and fastball. His ERA of 3.35 is 3d highest among the top 15 closers in the AL. But he has 30 saves to 2 blown saves, a very good ratio.

Like I said earlier, not much doubt the Sox would--now have won--win the ALE. The problem is the Sox going back to finding ways to lose after an 11 game winning streak. Last night it was the rotation, specifically, our $30M putz Price. Tonight it was our putz of a closer who has done exactly the same thing in one previous game--walked a million guys in the 9th. If I'm not mistaken, tonight it was 4 straight. Yes, Kelly gave up the grandslam, but he also got those 2 outs. At any point with all three hitters he faced, a little old single ties the game. And let's not forget that tonight 2 of 3 runs the Sox scored were unearned. Last night Ortiz left 7 guys on base, and tonight Benintendi did exactly the same thing--left 7 guys on. We had 5 hits, one of which was a hard hit double by Pedroia, another a freakish high bouncer double by betts that just missed being a GIDP. So the hitting isn't exactly clicking either. To be honest, Kimbrel was the real issue tonight. 4 walks and a single, 28 pitches (13 strikes), no outs. Tonight kind of reminds me of a couple of earlier outings when Kimbrel came in without a save on the line--the Sox were tied or down 1 run--and Kimbrel would just stink it up. And a bunch of guys would be all over Farrell for making poor Kimbrel go out there in the first place. "Kimbrel should not have to do windows," the cry went forth. "He's a closer, no more, no less. Anything else is mismanagement." Well now we have a new category--Kimbrel should not be sent to the mound for a save unless it's a really important game. My fear is that additional categories--when Kimbrel should not be asked to pitch--await us. Away games, perhaps? Lefty batters? Any batters capable of parking it? Any batters who refuse to swing at wild pitches? The above is exaggeration of course. It was just a bad night for Kimbrel. But it sure pisses me off because he makes such a big show--throwing his arms out like they are wings or something--when he gets ready to pitch--just the polar opposite of Mariano Rivera.

What is this "relax" BS? Yes, I'm pretty sure the Sox will clinch the ALE, but what worries me is that the Sox now seem to be rediscovering losing baseball after winning 11 in a row. Last night it was our $30M starter giving up 3 dingers and 6 runs. Tonight it's a lineup that can't hit or score runs through 7 innings. Two singles, that's it. Fortunately, Buchholz looked great tonight, the polar opposite of Price last night, and Ziegler pitched a clean 7th.

We know for a fact that this month Farrell has had no problem pulling starters early. But the Sox are now in the playoffs and a very good bet to win the ALE, so I think last night was kind of a test run. Come the playoffs, I think Price will have a shorter leash than usual. Last night he was lousy early and late in his 6.1 innings and just 89 pitches. Were the same thing to happen in the playoffs, I think Price doesn't come out for the 6th inning.

I think all the naysayers about the postseason are right. But I still like the idea that Sandoval has made progress and could be considered (without being selected) for the postseason.

Glad to hear it. I do know that not long ago--within a month--Farrell also said he would lead with Price. Last night only confirmed that Porcello is the right choice. If the ALDS goes 5 games, either one can pitch game 5.