Maxbialystock

Agree with both--that he is among the top 5 defensive centerfielders in MLB and that he is not the greatest centerfielder in a generation or whatever. I think those who are saying he's the greatest do so to justify keeping him in the lineup despite his horrible slump. In 2014 I was very enthusiastic about JBJ as our starting rookie centerfielder because I thought Ellsbury was way overpriced and the Sox were right to let the Yankees steal him away. But he ended up in Pawtucket because he could not hit MLB pitching, and that continued until he was called back again in August 2015 and suddenly blossomed as a hitter, which continued all the way through the 2016 season and sort of (his OPS went below .750) in 2017. For those 2 2/3 seasons I thought we had a very good all around centerfielder who was an especially good defender. This year I expected the same, and I'll bet the Sox FO and new manager did too. For roughly the first 20 games, JBJ was good enough at the plate to keep his regular job, but then three things happened. The Sox incredible winning streaks stopped and the Yankees went on their own tear and caught and passed the Sox for the best record in MLB. At the same time, the pitching dropped off a tad, the hitting became that more important, and the bottom third of the lineup became more and more of a drag on the offense. JBJ became the most expendable guy in the bottom third because Nunez was still our best bat at 2B, Leon/Vazquez were the only viable options at catcher, and JBJ went into an even worse slump.

Perhaps it is. But to me it's better than observation or memory or whatever of two players separated by 50 years. I understand the enthusiasm for JBJ, but I haven't seen the same enthusiasm outside the domain of the Red Sox fan base. I'm serious about that. I've seen no commentary outside of Boston about the greatness of JBJ. I do agree DWAR's are imperfect, but would go on to say there are no really good metrics for defensive prowess, especially in the outfield. One of my measuring sticks used to be assists vs. errors, but then I realized that smart teams and smart players try not to run on good arms. So fewer baserunners will try to go from first to third on a single to right when they know Betts is in right field. Plus moonslav has made the point that errors are not the best way to measure good defense even though talksoxers are more than happy to make an exception in Devers case: he errs, therefore he is hopelessly incompetent.

Maybe too high. Blair won the Gold Glove 8 times and JBJ none. He is 28 and fast running out of time.

About right. Heck, I don't even mind the 2 run dinger because it will remind Price next time not to fall in love with that cutter. It was a terrific outing that saved the bullpen, got us a nice win, and gives Price a ton of confidence. Sox now "tied" with the Yankees for 1st but have a lower winning percentage of course. Tomorrow it's Pom, and one can only hope he will improve on his last outing. In the one before that, he was our best starter in the 3 games at Yankee Stadium. Good news is that Cobb's ERA is even worse than Pom's.

He's made 80 put outs to date, not including tonight. How many of those weren't catchable by the average centerfielder and also in fact saved a run? I would say maybe 5.

The dinger and the double were both off of cutters on the inside of the plate around waist high. Price is human after all.

Exactly. He gets a million dollars for every start thru the first 30. The rest are free.

Read what I said again: Betts is a better defensive rightfielder than JBJ a defensive centerfielder. JBJ is no doubt a better centerfielder, but he sure as heck isn't the greatest ever. That's just nuts.

Orioles announcers are talking about the great jump and straight route Mookie had to make that grab. I truly believe he is a better defensive rightfielder than JBJ is a centerfielder.

No manager in MLB, including Cora, would keep anyone in CF who was getting a single every 10 at bats. Aesthetically, you have a point. Great defense is the poetry of baseball and what we love to see in person and on the boob tube if only because of the sheer repetition and sometimes monotony of pitching and swinging. But surely even you can see that tonight the defense is all about Price and the offense about those two dingers. All the other stuff is fun to watch and even comment on but has no effect on the game outcome.

I thought I'd try anyway.

Me too.

I like the mojo, but I also like the in the ballpark commentary.

I think they are a lot better in the bottom third, but that our top six are better than theirs. If Moreland is in our lineup vs. righties, we have 7 pretty good bats even though Devers is struggling a little.

Agree he is a good baserunner and probably has above average speed. A deep fly to right at Fenway would allow Sandy Leon to score from 3B, maybe on one leg. But not Daniel Nava who, I swear, one time did not advance from 2B on a drive off the wall in right to right center field at Fenway. In fact, at the moment it hit the wall, he was sliding--yes, sliding--back to 2b.

wow. Just wow. I see something like that and think the Sox would be nuts to go after Machado as a rental or long term at probably $25M a year. This looks to be the kind of lopsided win we need more of and have seen in the previous 9 games.

Some. But he's the slowest in this outfield. Never stolen more than 9 bases in a season. soxprospects says average speed but rate his defense for highly.

Gausman is determined not to look back or look at the runner on 1B. He has pitched well, and he is killing himself out there. Good for us.

Nice. We needed that one. Again, Moreland does not go home on the middling fly to RF. It was almost a close play for JBJ but the right thing to do.

That's two SB's off Gausman with no throw from the catcher. Still, Moreland would not have done that. JBJ is not quick, so he was taking a chance, but I think a good risk given how Gausman has pitcher since the first. I disagree with most commentary about boneheaded baserunning by the Sox even though sometimes that does occur.

I looked up Sox outfield assists this year, and Beni is the leader. You just explained why.

Yup. Has he played at Fenway before?

I have said nothing negative about JBJ tonight and in fact have rooted for him a lot in the past. My hobby horse--and here I am guilty--is that excellent outfield defense is nowhere near as important as excellent pitching. Price has been terrific tonight and he has made all the difference because Gausman has pitched pretty well since JD's 2 run dinger in the 1st. I have also said repeatedly I am fine with whoever Cora puts in CF. It's still possible with 5 innings to play for JBJ to actually make a great grab and if so I will cheer him on. That will not change my position on the much greater importance of good pitching. And, while I'm on the subject, in a low-scoring game like tonight, I can't help but think we could use one more good lefty bat vs. Gausman--like Moreland.

First MLB start by Orioles catcher Susac.

Nice grab by JBJ plus quick throw to the infield to keep the runner on 1B.