Maxbialystock

In my opinion, a silly thread. Our depth is fine. Our hitting is 2d in MLB in OPS and runs scored. Our pitching is now 5th in ERA which will likely improve because Wright replaced POM. In fact, it is probably the 2d best rotation in MLB after the Astros. The Sox still have a winning record when Mookie is out. I honestly don't want to "fix" this team even though it has weaknesses--which everyone has, just not the same weaknesses. Did I mention the Sox have 3 more wins than any other team in MLB? I mean, how bad can we be?

Love the discussion about Kimbrel. He stubs his toe, and Cora gets blamed for sending him out there in the first place. We already know Kimbrel shouldn't be used when men are on base. Ditto the 8th inning. Now apparently it's consecutive games. Also with 4 run leads. That's the beauty of having an $11M reliever--finding that perfect niche for him and absolutely, positively not placing too many demands on him.

Not playing baseball for a MLB team is not nor ever has been "suffering." We still have racial ills and prejudices that do far more damage. Even little things in our everyday lives can do some small damage. We can do just fine without a "Yawkey Way," but I see no need to make him into a latter day Simon Legree.

He wasn't buying indulgences. He was just being philanthropic. Yawkey bought the Sox in 1933 when racism was rampant in America, including lynchings, lots of lynchings. His sin--not even a crime--was in not hiring the likes of Jackie Robinson to play baseball for the Boston Red Sox. If this was a grave sin--thus requiring the purchase of an indulgence--why in the wide, wide world of sports is Branch Rickey still celebrated for his courage and vision in making Jackie Robinson a Dodger in 1947, one year before Harry Truman integrated the Armed Services? More to the point, no African American MLB-caliber players suffered because of Yawkey's prejudice and shortsightedness because other teams quickly saw the value of raiding the Negro League which had tons of available talent. I believe I am correct that the Negro National League folded in 1948--1948!!!!!--because MLB and even MILB were happy to hire talented African American players. Yawkey's shortsightedness only hurt his team, but it did not deny employment to talented players. He spent a lot of money on players because he wanted to win, but held out for 12 years (until 1959) before signing Pumpsie Green. I am not defending Yawkey and am fine with renaming Yawkey Way, which is a rightful decision by the people and government of Boston. I am also not arguing Yawkey wasn't racist, but I am definitely saying there are degrees of racism which, by the way, is still with us today. Yawkey's racism was to me almost benign. If you listen to or read about Bill Russell, whose amazing NBA career, 1956-69, was entirely in Boston, he would tell you Boston fans were very racist, as indeed the city was.

The nattering nabobs of negativism will always have a field day on game threads which are kind of like a free fire zone. Almost anything goes. I will myself get po'd with certain plays, pitches, at bats, whatever, but in the general scheme of this season, I'm a pretty happy camper. I like this team including its failings which sometimes are numerous. I see five pretty good hitters in Betts, Beni, Bogie, JDM, and Moreland and the real possibility that Devers will join them. I see five good starters in Price, Sale, Porcello, ERod, and Wright. I see a good bullpen. I see a good outfield defense and OK infield and catching--with special mention to Vazquez for catching Wright. Last night was kind of vintage ERod, who has very good stuff, but not very good command. When he has both, he is pretty much on a par with Sale and Price and better than Porcello in my view. Note to mvp78: dead right on what motivates Kimbrel.

See, that's the problem with you. I'm serious. You're always doing your homework.

Actually, my quarrel is with the phrase, "terrible job by rookie manager Cora." That's strong stuff and invites disagreement. To me you can't say that and then say how he managed everything else is irrelevant. I agree Holt is a better fielding 2B than Nunez because it's obvious and sometimes infuriating. But, unlike you, I look at everything Cora does as a manager and grant him any lineup he wants. At one point, for example, the Sox were 11-4 without Mookie--a small sample, but suggestive that Cora might know what he is doing. Ditto the rest days which I've never seen before, at least this early in a season. And let's not forget that way back in March plenty of us would have been happy to dump Holt, but Cora kept him and used him. My goodness, he even uses Swihart who has yet to show he has any value other than as a backup backup catcher and very occasional RF/DH. The problem, I gather, is that DD can't send Swihart to Pawtucket. So not using Holt at 2b last night was not an oversight but a deliberate choice and one I respect despite my dislike of Nunez whom I liked a lot last year.

Slightly better infield tonight, but a dropoff in RF, JDM for Mookie.

Good for you--laughing about it. Nunez leading off, especially after how you excoriated him last night, is indeed a surprise. But doing that stabilizes the rest of the lineup and adds a lefty bat, Holt. I'm also surprised Vazquez is catching again tonight given he went extra innings last night (but not all 12).

He was pulled only as a precaution according to Cora after the game. He had not played a game in 2 weeks and was pulled in the 11th. I thought Mookie looked fine in RF and at bat and am surprised he isn't in there tonight. But I have no problem with Cora being cautious. It just makes tonight's game a little tougher.

Thank you, thank you, thank you. Wonderful assertion about Cora's inability to manage to your satisfaction. Better still, you leave no margin of error on Nunez vs. Holt: Cora was completely, irretrievably wrong; and you're completely right. And that, frankly, is just nuts because you massively overstate the importance of one player in a lineup. Not too long ago I pointed out that the Sox had gone 11-4 without Mookie in the lineup, and he is only having a career year with and OPS around 1.100. I like Holt this year--I haven't in the past--for the reasons most of us do. He's a versatile as ever, but this year has an astounding OPS that's over .800. Zowie. But he is still just one guy, and any reasonable observer would give Cora the benefit of any doubt we might have. As it turned out, the two guys who hurt us the most last night were JDM and Moreland who between them had 0 hits and 6 K's and left 8 guys on base. Might I add the Cora's handling of his starter and of the bullpen was nothing more than masterful last night. He left Wright in as long as possible and then brought in the perfect guy to get him out of a jam. Of course, most of the credit goes to the pitchers--Wright, Kelly, Johnson, Hembree, and Kimbrel--but Cora always seemed to know just when to use someone and, in the case of Kimbrel, when to wait.

Good matchup: Hess is only 2-2 in five starts, but his ERA is 3.07 and .96 for his most recent 3 starts and 18.2 innings. ERod is coming into his own this season and is 7-1 with an ERA of 3.68 (2.75 at Camden Yards). But you gotta like our lineup now that Mookie and JDM are back because it's the second best in MLB--despite the great job Bundy did last night. Will fatigue be an issue after a 12 inning game? I don't think so if only because the Sox are pretty young. Nunez is 30 and Moreland 32. JDM is 30 but was the DH last night. Leon will catch, so no problem there. Plus it's the Orioles who right now have the fewest wins, 19, in MLB and are missing Machado.

Back to A Realistic View at 2018, Part II. After last night's 12 inning, 2-0 win over the Orioles, I remain the same pollyanna I was maybe 3 pages ago. The Sox now have Mookie and JDM back, which means we have an excellent lineup--the second best in MLB in OPS and runs scored. Heck, right now I even like the defense which looked pretty darn good to me last night: tie game, no mistakes, and some pretty good plays. But the best part is the pitching now that Pom is on the DL. Five solid starters and a pretty good bullpen. Oh, and "tied" with the Yankees even though they have the better winning percentage. Right now the Sox have 45 wins, three more than any other MLB team. Not too shabby.

I agree with bellhorn04 and don't at all recall Adrian Gonzalez being vilified when he played here. He not only had a great year in 2011--the best of his career--but he taught Ortiz how to hit to the opposite field. He was always slow as molasses, but he was a very good hitter and a skillful first baseman. I frankly thought he was traded to the Dodgers as a sweetener to overcome the bitter flavor of their also taking Beckett and Carl Crawford off our hands. As for the racist claim, I agree with oldtimer and think we should ease up on claiming others are racist. Racism certainly exists in our country and I'm sure in Boston (where I don't live), but I just don't see it on talksox.

Sox have a winning record without Betts and he is having just as good a year as Machado. I prefer to look at the bright side. JDM and Mookie are both back in the lineup, and we know this team can hit and score runs--2d most runs scored in MLB and second highest OPS. At the same time the rotation right now is looking awfully good to me, and the bullpen too. Sox history tells us that need good hitting to win, but they also need good pitching. Heck, I even like the defense right now.

Finally, someone noticed the great pitching by our guys. Of course, it's impossible that the Orioles might have pitched well. They're cellar dwellers and can do nothing right, so we must have had the wrong lineup out there because we sure weren't hitting. Devers belongs in Pawtucket. Nunez is worthless, but is still better than Vazquez or JBJ. Holt should have been in the lineup. We really need a trade, at least one more good bat. Is it too late to bring Hanley back?

So true. We are just stuck with a dumb manager. If he had only stuck him in there in place of JDM or Moreland who together struck out 6 times and were hitless while leaving 8 guys on base.

It's certainly not a strategy. It's just the nature of baseball. Top five or six have carried a big load this season, but the bottom 3, 4, or 5 have chimed in now and then. Thus the biggest hit by far of the game was Devers double, so of course he was the guy getting most of the brick bats on this game thread. I think the favorite theme was to send him back to Pawtucket. I honestly thought the Orioles pitching was pretty good, what with our top four getting K'd 7 times vs. the other five getting K'd 5 times. Another indicator was that huge K of Moreland in the 11th with the bases loaded. In Moreland's defense, I thought he got K'd by circumstances and one really good pitch. Givens threw three straight balls to make it 3-0, then a strike on the outside corner which Moreland should have taken, then a more centered strike which he also should have taken--a walk gives the Sox the lead with Kimbrel available to close. But that last pitch was a fastball, 95 or 96 mph, on the low inside corner which Moreland had to swing at and did and missed.

Top of the order craps out and bottom five hitters produce 2 runs.

4 very nice outs by Kelly and before him 20 very nice outs by Wright. Plus pretty good defense. The perfect game in which to have both. The offense has done zilch, but this game is still very winnable.

Too true. No hits and 3 K's among them. Of course, Betts, JDM, and Moreland tonight have no hits and 4 K's among them.

An honest man.

With JDM and Betts both back in the lineup and a grand total of 3 singles in this game, we are blaming Cora for using a bad lineup and giving zero credit to Bundy? None so blind as though who refuse to see. Of course, as I recall, a lot of folks thought Manaea was just plain lucky on that no-hitter earlier this year in Oakland.

Like I said, one very exciting game. Kelly comes in with the bases loaded and wham, gets the 3d out on a K.

Yup. You nailed it. Holt would have been the difference maker tonight and fixed the hitlessness of Betts, JDM, and Moreland. Cora is such an idiot.