Maxbialystock

Just a miserable game so far despite the 1-0 lead which Porcello is barely protecting. It's like some combo of Tropicana and some virus running thru the lineup. Seven righty bats in the lineup is doing very little good.

Could not agree more. He is really clueless when his starter runs into trouble. It would have been so simple to just run the bullpen out there in the 2d inning. I think Farrell is available, but probably not Bobby Valentine. The great thing about talksox is the astuteness of guys like you. I live for these game threads.

I thought he was pretty darn good despite the dinger, and I try never to say that about Pom.

Yeah, he needs a lot of work. Paltry OPS of .886 before tonight's 3/4 game. The hitting coach has a lot to answer for.

I'm not seeing a tired bat, not one bit. I'm seeing Mookie swinging for the fences on almost every swing. He's definitely swinging hard and he is no longer trying to go to the opposite field. That last at bat is a perfect example. The pitch was on the outside corner and Mookie hit it down the 3b line.

What the hell is Pom's problem? I had him neatly categorized as just about worthless as a starter or a reliever. A loser thru and thru. But that was a pretty handy little 4.1 innings which saved a big part of the bullpen.

Leaving POM in has paid dividends. He's gone 3.1 and got them thru 6 at the cost of 2 runs on top of Velazquez's 8. But that doesn't mean Cora isn't the dumbest, stupidest manager in Sox history. Nosiree. I'm sure DD is taking lots of notes and maybe already looking for a replacement. This was a rookie mistake, and in a pennant race in August you should not not, you cannot tolerate them. Off with his head.

Has Pom picked up a couple mph on his 4 seam fastball?

My goodness JBJ looked foolish on that at bat. Refused two curves up in the strike zone and swung hard at a fast ball well above it. Like rookie.

I think those stupid nicknames are a perfect match for the dumb uniforms.

Neat because it alliterates the same way SPLENDIDSPLINTER does.

I don't like what happened, but for once I'm going to agree to not bailing out Velazquez before 7 runs, which is what most managers do anyway, but which almost all managers would do with a 9 game lead in late August having just come off a tough 4 game series vs. Cleveland. And who know? Maybe the offense can still win this thing. I also seriously like the manager making the starter pay for his ineptitude with a nice bump in his ERA to remind him lousy pitching has consequences. Also, and I mean this very honestly. Why the hell isn't anyone mad at Velazquez? Besides me, that is. He's the guy out there on the mound, and no way, no how is Cora or Swihart or the pitching coach encouraging him to keep throwing the ball right down the middle. Did anyone besides me notice that Pom has already given up a 2 run dinger and is back out there pitching the 5th? It seems to me obvious Cora doesn't want to waste good pitching on a game that was/is probably lost anyway.

I thought I'd call up the OP one more time because of those last 7 words, "how WAR has any basis in reality?" That to me is a stunningly ignorant statement. WAR is imperfect--it almost has to be given that it is looking at the whole player, offense and defense--but is nothing if not based on the reality that the whole player counts, not just rbi's or HR's or BA or OPS or whatever. It also has to take into account the number of games a player has played that season. Just above this are some interesting stats on the correlation between WAR and MVP voting, which argues strongly that those voters think WAR is pretty darn useful. As for the specifics of this season and Mookie vs. Trout, right now the three top AL WAR's belong to Mookie (8.5), Trout (7.9), and Ramirez (7.0). Well below them at 5.9 is JDM, who is having a fantastic year, leading MLB in rbi's and 2d in dingers with an OPS of 1.059, etc. But he is mostly a DH and loses WAR value because of it. I agree with that. I can only add that to me, if the WAR's are close--which they were way back when this thread was started and Mookie was at 3.5 to Trout's 3.7--, the voters and us fans are certainly entitled to argue who is really better--bringing in other stats or impressions or whatever--because WAR is not definitive. It is merely a very good attempt at measuring the whole player.

Pretty smart. I think you could be right about following Sale. Both are tall lefties who throw hard. Sale throws more sliders and changeups. Price more cut fastballs. But both like that four seamer. Because of his salary, you are also right about the unsung aspect of Price. I have griped as much as anyone, mostly because of the salary.

Velazquez ® vs. Castillo ®, who very likely will only go 1 or maybe 2 innings. Happ pitched 5 days ago and shut us down in Boston, so he will be the real starter and he's a lefty. So my guess is Cora will have at least five righty bats in the lineup tonight. Last Sunday it was Betts, Beni, Pearce, JDM, Bogey, Nunez, Holt (then Kinsler), Swihart, and Bradley. He might go with the same 9 tonight. Tomorrow will likely be Yarborough, another lefty, who went 5.1 and gave up 0 last Monday. Sunday probably Snell, another lefty.

Before the sun sets on this game thread--- This Cleveland series was meaningful precisely because it was Cleveland who were 13--4 in August going into this series. In the first two games, we saw why. In the second two games, they saw why the Sox have the best record in MLB and will be a force in the postseason. Game 3 of that series should have been a big mismatch with Johnson going against Carrasco, but the lineup broke out in the 4th and never looked back. The Sox won 10-4 even though Johnson only went 4.1 innings (giving up 3 runs). Our much-maligned bullpen gave up 1 run in 4.2 innings.

I look forward to the first two games.

This continues to be a discussion. Right now I sure would like to keep Swihart because he really can catch but can also play the outfield, 1b, and maybe 3b. And he can hit. Realistically, however, the Sox have all those slots covered pretty well into the future. I agree with whoever says Swihart should be on the postseason roster ahead of Vazquez, but can't help remembering that Vazquez and Leon have been a pretty good tandem this year even with the weak hitting. We really don't need Swihart that badly for 2019. If the Sox can't get good trade value for Swihart for 2019, he would probably be an excellent backup next year and get used a lot more if only to find out, finally, how well he really can hit.

Funny how we all know what "unsung hero" means, but few if any know where the idea comes from. I would argue that the first "sung" heroes were from Homer's Iliad and the Odyssey. I think most historians agree those sagas were originally an oral and not a written creation. "Unsung" is a word we owe to Shakespeare, who was the first known writer to regularly stick that "un" at the beginning of a word and thereby vastly increased our vocabulary. Given the above, there are literally no unsung heroes on this Sox team because every single player is discussed endlessly and especially when they do something well in front of the NESN commentators and the Boston press in general. Nevertheless, the word "unsung" has a lot of connotations and in the context of the thread title entirely appropriate to invite discussion about players who get less press and less appreciation but who nonetheless contributed to a remarkable, maybe even historic Sox season. I would like to take that one step further and recognize those who perhaps deserve to remain unsung, and would begin with Pablo Sandoval and Hanley Ramirez because I think their departures--even though the Sox are still paying them lots of moola--helped this current team. We needed them gone and DD (and this year Cora) deserve our thanks. I would also nominate Swihart and Pomeranz because for most of this season I for one thought that were wasted slots on the roster. Swihart lately has made DD and Cora look like geniuses even though he is still a bit player. Yesterday was a perfect example of Cora's genius and Swihart's stunning versatility despite having played the fewest games of anyone on the roster all year. As for Pomeranz, I still don't like him, but give him and Cora credit for trying to contribute from the bullpen. All that said, I basically agree with those above who singled out Leon, Barnes, Johnson, Velazquez and maybe Holt. But especially Leon.

I knew he meant day game, but couldn't resist showing off that I lived in Europe and/or the Middle East for many years and was very familiar with the time zone differences. My bad.

What I saw today was great location.

So you're in Europe--or is it the Middle East? Back here in the USA it's daytime all over the place.

Exactly.

So I'm looking at this lineup just destroy what seemed to be excellent Cleveland pitching, and I'm thinking what must be going thru Francona's mind. What was that famous line from Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid? "Who are those guys, anyway?" Well, in a huge gamble by Cora, one of them is his backup catcher now playing first base with 2 hits and 2 rbi's. On top of all that, Price is just gangbusters. Or how about the line attributed to the British commander at Yorktown when he had to surrender to the Continental Army (GW and the guys) in October 1781? The World Turned Upside down. The above was of course written by someone who two days was ready to throw in the towel.

Price is pitching a heckuva game and it ain't luck. He has good command and, in part thanks to Sandy Leon, a good approach on every pitcher. I haven't seen much besides the fastball and cutter, but they are working.