Maxbialystock

Good point on Pom, who I forgot. But I still prefer Wright over Pom and Poyner over Johnson. Wright and Pom might work, but I just like Poyner more than Pom.

Betts RF Kinsler 2b JDM LF Bogaerts SS Pearce 1B Nunez 3B JBJ CF Leon C Porcello P 8 righty bats + JBJ

You do not agree because you said it first.

More than 11 pitchers is way more than enough, just as moonslav says: 4 starters and 7 relievers with lots of rest before the ALDS starts. Based on WAR my four starters are Sale, Price, ERod and Porcello. And my seven relievers are Kimbrel, Brasier, Barnes, Workman, Kelly, Poyner, and Wright. I like lefties in the bullpen, thus Poyner (but definitely not Johnson). Wright is also good against lefties. That leaves 14 position players: Betts RF Beni LF JDM DH Bogey SS Moreland 1B Kinsler 2B Devers 3B Leon C JBJ CF Vazquez C Swihart C Pearce 1B Nunez 3b/SS/2B Holt IF/OF

Wright just might sneak into that 4th slot, which i do think will be needed.

All three Sox catchers this season have OPS's between .500 and .600, so defense should be the measuring stick. I think Swihart is the best athlete of the three, but Leon and Vazquez have the better defensive skills. However, I just checked the catcher DWAR's for MLB and find that Leon is at .8 and the other two tied at 0.0.

Very nice win. Eovaldi struggled but showed some grit.

They replace Nunez and Kinsler, who were hitless in the game, which was lost 8-0, a perfect time to experiment.

What a difference a good starter makes. I honestly think ERod has the best changeup on the team, but last night he threw a lot of fast balls--to good effect. I also like that Brasier had men on 2d and 3d with 1 out and no one scored. But the key was the first three innings when our lineup was basically mowed down and we sure needed that great start by ERod. Right now our righty starters don't seem so hot. In fact, I think most of us have agreed that, if healthy, our three best for the postseason are Sale, Price, and ERod.

Amazing game which I think turned around--slightly--after Porcello gave up 3 in the 1st, 1 in the 2d, and none in the next three. Cora stopped the bleeding by keeping his starter in the game. Agree with those who say Swihart pinch hitting for Leon--successfully--and then catching is a terrific bonus effect, but me, I still would start Leon because I believe he has a good effect on the staff and that he probably helped Porcello last night. Look, the players are the ones who wrought this mini-miracle last night after Giolito shut them out for 6 innings on 2 hits and 2 walks. But I can't help thinking Cora's season-long influence has made them capable of these comebacks--which in this case, I say again, began when Cora left Porcello in the game.

Betts RF BEni LF JDM DH Bogie SS Nunez 3B Holt 1B Kinsler 2B Leon C JBJ CF No Moreland and no Pearce. Still a good lineup. Is this the first time the four best hitters have been the first four in the lineup?

Are you kidding? JBJ has been sung more than Sweet Caroline.

Swihart called for all those pitches that got hit hard. He needs to start signalling for tough pitches to hit.

Agree with emp9. Funny.

Absolutely frightening game which started out as an easy win. Then the bullpen--especially Barnes-- did their best to imitate Freddy Kruger. The problem with this entire pitching staff, with just a few exceptions, is command of their pitches. Plenty of guys have decent stuff, but can't consistently throw it where it needs to go. That is not intended to be condemnatory because I think MLB pitching is extremely difficult to master. First of all, you are throwing the ball so hard you put your arm and shoulder at risk. Second, you have to throw a variety of pitches. And finally you have to nibble at the strike zone most of the time. Infielders, outfielders, catchers, quarterbacks, etc all aim at center of mass with some margin for error. On this Sox team I think Sale and Price usually have pretty good command. Sometimes the bullpen does too. Sometimes Porcello, Johnson (see last night) and Velazquez have good command. ERod has struggled with command in the past, but this year seemed to be getting it. Wright doesn't really need command--just try to get that knuckler somewhere, anywhere in the strike zone or close enough to tempt the batter.

I agree as well. Our three best starters this season are all lefties: Sale, Price, and ERod. Every time I look at the ALDS and ALCS schedules, I conclude we will actually need 4 starters. Right now I think Porcello, but need to see Wright pitch in September. This year he was pretty darn good when the knuckler was working.

Funny thing, but I happen to agree about the value of English. I know it sounds like prejudice, but it's what binds us together as a country. Since I taught it for 3 years, I also happen to think it's a pretty darn good language, which plenty of people around the globe of chosen to learn how to speak (or their parents and/or teachers browbeat them into learning) and read. I am, however, a little more tolerant of Japanese players because of the vast differences between their language and ours. But, if you are Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Thai, Honduran, Tibetan, Nepalese, Arab, or whatever, and you want to live and work in this country and maybe become a citizen, you need to learn English.

I didn't know that, but now I believe it. He is smart enough to know to focus on execution.

I pretty much buy the CERA theory even though a lot can depend on which catcher gets to catch which starter. In the case of Sandy Leon, I believe I see a smart catcher at work, and for exhibit A would refer to Price's last start, vs. the Guardians, when he threw 8 innings of shutout ball with 3 hits, 0 walks, and 7 K's. What I saw on my screen was Price relying heavily on his fastball and cut fastball. I saw very few changeups, sliders, or curves. Normally, usually, I would condemn such an approach, but that night it worked I think because Price had great command of the two pitches he used the most. I would further argue, that, if I'm right about what pitches Price threw that night--mostly fastballs and cut fastballs--only an experienced, confident, and insightful catcher would have done that. I also know that Sale is having a great year and has not refused any pitch Leon has called. I have absolutely no way of telling if Sandy is great framing pitches. In fact, I don't honestly see it--that our pitchers get more calls than opposing pitchers when Sandy is our catcher. But I do honestly feel that he has a rare intelligence and feel for pitching that makes him our best defensive catcher. If he is the best, I don't really care about his hitting. Well, not much anyway.

Meh. The good guys not only lost 3 straight at the Trop, they did so in a very convincing way in terms of not being able to hit good pitching. On top of that, since the five straight wins, Aug 10-14 vs. Orioles and Phillies, the Sox are 4-7 and now lead the Yankees by 6 with 30 games to play. One can only hope that 2011 does not repeat itself. More to the point, it sure looks as though jacksonianmarch is right and that the Sox are great at feeding on carrion, but not so great against teams at .500 or better. I do think we win the AL East, but now have doubts about the postseason unless we can play a team with a horrible pitching staff. Unfortunately, none of the teams--NYY, Cleveland, Houston, Oakland, Seattle--likely to be in the postseason have horrible pitching staffs.

While I agree the breaking stuff works against us, you must have decided not to watch this game because we can't hit this guy's fastball. In fact, in all three game it sure looked like our lineup needed their mommies to give them hugs because the Rays pitchers have been a bunch of bullies.

When the going gets tough, the tough start game threads. From now on, maybe a V device after Bellhorn04. Speaking of which, what the heck is a bell horn? Sounds like something that would fit into the Trop. I was going to start a thread on fatigue, but I'll insert it here. Our guys ain't any more tired in August than other teams. If you figure 8 everyday players per MLB team, that's 240 MLB everyday players. I use 8 per team even though optimally it would be 8.5 (difference between AL with the DH and NL without it). But I figure no team had all 8 (NL) or all 9 (AL) every day. The most anyone has played is 132 games--Freddy Galvis for the Padres. JDM has played--mostly as a DH--in 124 games, which puts him tied for 40th in most games played. Next is Beni with 123, tied for 46th most games played. Then JBJ with 1116 games, tied for 96th. Then Mookie with 111 games, tied for 125th. That's below the halfway mark of 120 players (of 240 everyday MLB players). Then Bogey and Nunez at 109 games, tied for 142d. Of course, we already know that Cora believes in rest days, so those number confirm it. Of course, it's also been an especially hot summer, what with global warming or whatever. But I would argue no warmer--any maybe cooler--than for other other teams.

I normally prefer to disagree with dustcover, but I love the OP, the preference for clean restrooms at Fenway (which is photogenic on TV but a pesthole in reality), and the reference to Bill Veeck. Well said.

Sure looks like two decisive victories for the Rays. Right now the Sox look like one of those great teams--see their record--with just two weaknesses: hitting and pitching. It would seem that lefties especially have our numbers.

Porcello has had some scary moments, but after 5 1/2 innings he is way, way, way better than the lineup which could not possibly look worse. Led by Mookie he was an easy out three straight times vs. a lefty starter. Pearce and Leon both swung on 3-0 pitches to hit easy peasy fly balls. Beni got incredibly lucky with that walk and promptly got himself picked off at 1b. Right now the Rays simply look more professional. It's that simple.