Maxbialystock

I did watch the game--a dazzling, vintage Sale performance with lots of fastballs, 13 K's, 2 hits, 0 runs in 8 innings and 93 pitches, all of which suggest that maybe his problem was telegraphing his pitches. He did have his changeup and slider working, but I think 2/3 of his pitches were fast balls. I've advocating he learn how to throw a curve--which shows how much I know about what works for Chris Sale. Also a modicum of redemption for Sandy Leon--also good because the Sox need two viable MLB catchers. Sox are 5 games above .500, still have a losing record at Fenway, and are 5.5 back of the Rays and 5 back of the A's for the second wild card slot. So, in the immortal words of Billy Crystal in the Princess Bride, the Sox are only mostly dead. Still too soon to look for loose change in their pockets.

Yup

Best player in MLB may or may not have opportunities to shine. I'm fine with watching the game, at least for awhile. I'll repeat something I said on the other thread. I think a big part of this year's Sox pitching problem is that they have not adjusted to the semi-seamless baseball. In addition, Sale has lost steam on his fast ball.

Really? Last year started with a hot streak that barely let up--thus 108 wins. This year started with a terrible road trip, after which the Sox struggled to get above .500. My guess, only that, is that fans are going to games this year partly because of the 108 and the WS last year. Plus the hitting is good. Plus some people like to watch train wrecks. The Sox have now played 58 games at home with 23 to go, so there is still time for attendance to drop below last year's. However-- 2012, losing season, attendance 37,567 per game 2013, WS win, attendance 34,979 per game. 2014, a losing season, it was 36,494. 2015, another losing season, 35,564. 2016, an ALDS season, 36,486. 2017, also ALDS, 36,020. 2018, greatest Sox season ever, 35,747 2019, disappointing season, so far 36,074.

Attendance this year is higher than last year. I don't know about NESN viewership of course.

Ahem. Consider your source. The simple reality is that Sale, Price, ERod, Eovaldi, and even sometimes Porcello have thrown a lot of fastballs throughout their careers. I think that fixation on the fastball is exacerbated by the seams being smoother--which makes breaking balls less effective--and by the fact that three of them are lefties who apparently never mastered the curve ball which breaks toward righty batters. Also, there can be no question that Sale's fastball has lost something. I think he has a great slider, but it breaks in on righties. I do agree the pitching staff has not adjusted to the semi-seamless baseball this year. Both the rotation and the bullpen.

A recent article on the downfall of Tanaka says the new smoother seams on baseballs have affected his splitter. This current Sox team has easily the worst ERA in the John Henry era, 4.82. Last year with basically the same pitching staff the team ERA was 3.75. For those pining for Kimbrel, his ERA this year is 5.68. Kelly's is 4.97. I am exonerating no one, but would say that some pitchers have clearly adjusted to the new ball better than others. I think it is also reasonable to assume that the Sox pitching coach hasn't helped much. Sox lineup meanwhile is scoring even more runs than last year when they led MLB in scoring.

AGon was great in 2011, which however ended disastrously. So sending him to LA in 2012 made sense. JD Drew never made sense to me because, while he seemed to be the proverbial five tool player, he spent too much time on the DL and never came close to his career year of 2004. Very good defender and on the WS winners in 2007. JDM made a huge difference last year. Like Ortiz, he made the whole lineup better. Plus I kind of like that he is more than willing to play LF or RF when needed. Hanley Ramirez and Pablo Sandoval, on the other hand, were bad acquisitions.

I think deer in the headlights can happen to almost any pitcher because the demands are so great: you have to be able to throw the ball pretty hard, hopefully put some spin on it, and hit your spots. Most pitchers can throw strikes 2/3 of the time, but it's hard to keep hitting spots while getting strikes 2/3 of the time. Barnes has a pretty good fastball and curve--and other pitches--but his command comes and goes. Last year Kelly was the embodiment of a pitcher whose command was suspect and he drove most of us nuts during the regular season, but in the postseason he was terrific. ERod is an even better example. See especially his last start against the Yankees. He didn't have it in the 1st inning, gave up 2 walks and a hit, and then, with the pressure on, threw a fat pitch that became a grand slam. He then pitched 6 innings of shut out baseball despite giving up 4 more walks.

Astros had the highest OPS, .843, in the postseason last year and scored 42 runs in 8 game, about 5.4 runs/game. Sox OPS was about 100 points lower.

Agree. All respect to bosoxmal, but this ain't worth a separate thread.

Agree. I would like to agree with CP176 about Sale, but have my doubts right now because he is so dependent upon the fastball and slider, which then puts extra pressure on being able to work the fringes of the strike zone. I would like to see a curve, but would settle for a reliable changeup that he can work the corners with. In any case, I just don't see the bullpen now.

Didn't read the whole thread, but was pleased with the first page where most comments say something similar to--"well, that's baseball." Certainly I blame the starters. But they weren't too shabby last year and in fact have had good years in the past. So I'm inclined to blame the pitching coach even though I recognize there is only so much he can do. Last night was another specific reminder of how Sox starters are different, at least in my eyes. They don't work the corners well, especially at the bottom of the zone, and this exacerbates the fact that three of them--Sale, Price, and ERod--don't have a curve ball, so they rely on fast balls and cut fast balls. ERod has the best changeup, but not that good command. The quintessential ERod first inning is the one we saw vs the Yankees this weekend when he walked I think two guys, gave up the grand slam, and them pitched a very solid 6 innings. Sale and Price, astoundingly, do not have great changeups even though face tons of righty bats. Sale has a darn good slider, but can't always hit his spots, especially down low, plus it breaks in on righty hitters. The bullpen for the most part does not have great stuff or great command. Lately, they seem intimidated by just going to the mound. I see nothing to fix in the hitting. When opposing pitchers prevail, it's usually because they are pitching well--hitting spots, good movement, etc.

Sotomayer, a native of NYC, talking to Aaron Judge. Pretty cool, I gotta admit.

Where in the wide wide world of sports are you hearing that? Go to the Countdown to the Playoffs thread, and on the next to the last page you will read a statement from moonslav59, our eternal optimist, that all he sees is darkness. I will grant you that in the OP I was sort of up beat, but why the hell not? Yes, the Sox are playing crappy right now and the pitching stinks. But there are still 54 games left and the Sox are only 3.5 and 4 games out of the 2d wild card.

Note. The flip side of walking guys, as ERod did in the first, is you get desperate to throw a strike, any strike, which is exactly what Torres was looking for.

Pretty long list of Yankees on the IL. If the Sox had that many, they'd be losing games right and left. Wait a second. They're already losing games right and left, including this one which would make 5 in a row.

Finally, ERod works low in the zone. Great, except everyone single one was a ball--hence the walk. He has never had great control, but in some games it has clearly been good enough.

It absolutely does suck, but I think a big part of the problem is our pitchers are too predictable on top of which none of them has good enough control to keep working the bottom of the zone. They are predictable because for the most part they don't have much variety in their repertoire. Neither Sale nor Price nor ERod has a curveball, for example, and all three depend on fastballs and cut fastballs although Sale does throw a fair number of sliders. He has a very good slider, but is throwing in to righty bats and he is not good at keeping it low.

That 2 run dinger by JDM might have been lucky or an accident because it was a good pitch. Most of Paxton's pitches have been good. Lots of movement and good command. ERod prefers to throw straight fastballs and doesn't have the control to get away with it.

Not a hanger, a fastball on the inside corner about waist high. Not a bad pitch except for one thing. It was exactly what Torres was looking for because everyone knows ERod wants to throw straight hard stuff in the first inning. You know, establish his authority.

I forgot to mention about ERod studying his cap before making his first pitch. A sure sign he is overthinking. The Yankees don't need to look at their caps because everyone on their team knows what everybody else in MLB knows. In the first inning ERod just loves throwing his fastball, which is exactly what Torres looking for. Interestingly, I think the Sox manager or Bill Davis or the hitting coach has told our guys not to swing at first pitches. Too risky, plus the important thing is to get a walk or at least make the pitcher throw more pitches.

Some people think the Sox are laid back or don't care, but I think the opposite. I think they have been playing scared for big chunks of the season. It started of course with that horrendous opening road trip out west from which they have barely recovered. But it also shows in how often our pitchers get themselves intro trouble. Erod has faced three batters and has yet to throw a first pitch strike. He's scared to death of what might happen if he throws any strikes.

Thanks. I have zero heartburn with JBJ in CF and Vazquez catching. This is our best outfield even with JBJ not hitting.

7:05 start time, ERod vs. Paxton, lefty vs. lefty Even though the season ended last night when the Sox fell 3.5 games behind the Rays and .5 behind the A's--with just just 52 games to go and the Yankees fully prepared to deliver the killing blow this weekend--I definitely think this game and this series are winnable. And ERod would definitely be my choice to get a start on some momentum. Here's my lineup prediction: Betts CF Devers 3B Bogaerts SS Martinez RF Vazquez DH Benintendi LF Chavis 2B Travis 1B Leon C The above is driven by a lefty starting for the Yankees, Vazquez's sore knee and good bat and JBJ's bad bat. I am not nearly as sold on Leon's catching prowess as I was earlier this year and all of last year, so I put him in there only to rest Vazquez's knee. JBJ's OPS vs. lefties is 168 below his OPS vs. righties.