Maxbialystock

I thought the idea of the 2013 trade was to get some insurance for the pennant and the postseason, and I could swear 2013 had a pretty good outcome for which Iglesias was absolutely not needed because the Sox had two SS’s without him. Also, there was no guarantee Bogie would be better at 3b than at SS. Remember all the complaints about Devers at 3b? Also, why don’t the Tigers pay Iglesias more if they love him so much and other teams are trying to get him? One reason is his hitting, and the other is he is injury prone. That was my gripe with JD Drew, a much better player than Iglesias.

Wild applause for bosoxmal!!! i'm not sure I agree, but am getting tired of all the moaning and groaning. What has impressed me recently is that the hitting has been mostly good and sometimes even good enough to overcome big deficits to win. Plus the bullpen is looking pretty good, ERod is having a career year, and Porcello, despite having a terrible year, is still capable of a good start now and then. Last night was not a terrible loss. Nola pitched great, and JBJ still got that 2 run dinger in the 3d. Johnson stunk, but not completely because he went 3.1 giving up the 3 runs (all in the 1st). So good decision by Cora to leave him in and then later to pull him in the 4th. Then the bullpen was superb, but the lineup couldn't quite deliver, which I credit mostly to excellent pitching by the Phillies.

Back on my hobby horse. To me it's absurd to claim boneheaded plays are a significant cause of games lost this year. Why? Because the Sox ERA is the worst, 4.71, in the John Henry era(back to 2002), but the runs scored are 2d best in MLB and will likely be more than last year's Sox. The pitching is far and away the reason for this so-so season. I am not defending Bogaerts on that play, which was wrong, but will defend him for the overall season he has had to date, including any and all errors committed in the field. If the starters had had seasons as good as Bogie's, the Sox would again be running away with the AL East.

Reminds me of the argument/discussion back in 2013 when the Sox had three SS's--Bogie (who played 3B now and then), Iglesias (a brilliant defensive SS) and Drew, who was the primary starting SS. The Sox wanted one more starter and o/a 1 August trade Igelesias to the Tigers, who later met the Sox in the ALCS with Iglesias as their starting SS. I hated losing Iglesias, who to me was like having another Ozzie Smith, but have to admit that over the years Bogie has been far more valuable to the Sox than Iglesias has been to the Tigers. And this. Last year the Sox hit pretty well, but it was nevertheless an unending litany on talksox that the bottom of the order was just killing us.

I don't approve of the DH, but do like what the Sox have done with that position. JDM is definitely above average for a DH, but at $22M is also pricey. Last year that made a lot of sense because it was obvious that the addition of JDM made the whole lineup better. This year he's still pretty good, as is the lineup, but the drivers now are Devers and Bogie, both of whom are in the top ten in MLB in runs batted in. They are also #1 and #3 in doubles. And Betts is still #1 in runs scored.

I'm inclined to agree baseball is different if only because the dynamics of hitting and pitching are so variable. However. Dave Roberts key theft of 2d base in the 2004 ALCS was definitely clutch because it was doable, essential, and not without risk. You could probably make a similar argument for Beni's game-ending grab in Houston last October.

I don't know what the fix is. You would know far better than I. But I do agree DD is not the right guy to make it.

Wow. It always stuns me when Sox fans turn on the players. I agree Bogie made a bad decision going to 3b on a grounder to the left, but I am also aware that the Sox, including JDM on that very at bat, were 0 for 7 with RISP. So I remain unconvinced that play cost the Sox the game. In fact, had he made it safely to 3b, the Sox would not have had to get a doggone hit to bring him home. What cost the Sox the game in my not so humble opinion was solid pitching by the Phillies, especially their starter, who had not only four good pitches--fastball, changeup, curve, and slider--but good command of them. Thus wild applause for JBJ nailing one of the very few mistakes Nola made last night. Yes, Johnson was terrible in the 1st inning, but he actually went 3.1 innings and gave up only the 3 in the 1st. The Sox were still in the game, especially when the bullpen went 5.1 scoreless innings. But the Sox lineup just could not deliver with RISP, not because they are a bunch of boneheads, but because the Phillies pitching was good.

Meh. He has invested more in the rotation than in the lineup or the bullpen. Price is $31M/year, Porcello $21M, Sale $15M (but just extended at $25M+ per year), Eovaldi $17M, and ERod $4M. I'm not sure what Cashner is paid by the Sox for 2 months. Last year the rotation, basically the same guys as this year, was good enough to win 108 games plus 11 of 14 in the postseason. This year, almost complete collapse except for ERod who is having a career year.

I know you don't visit the Realistic thread all that often, so allow me to inform you that only occasionally is it about a Realistic View of 2019, Part I and Part II. More often, it's about almost anything related or even not related to the Boston Red Sox. Realistically, the 2019 playoffs train seems to have left the station without the Sox, but then I remember Lori Petty and Geena Davis actually running to catch a train that would in fact take them to the AAGPBL and conclude the Sox right now are only mostly dead. Besides, as I've said before, I am still happy to root for the lineup players (except Owings of course) and even the bullpen. I reserve my enmity for the rotation (less ERod who at 26 seems headed for his best season). Lately I've also thought a lot about the new semi-seamless baseball and it's dramatic effect on hitting and pitching in MLB. It would appear that other teams, especially their rotations, have adjusted more easily than ours.

Exactly. To me it's OK to be furious with the rotation who are paid a ton of money and have not delivered, but at the same time to root like crazy for the Sox to win. I'm still irritated that Owings is on the roster, but otherwise am fine with it. And I notice these days Cora is more than willing to pull a starter early and well before what used to be the "7 run rule." Plus someone else said even losing teams should try to win in order to be fair to all the teams that are still in the hunt.

I'm in favor of rest days because frankly I think it is impossible to stay on your game playing on average 6 games per week for 26 straight weeks and including huge amounts of tedium during each game while the batter adjusts his gloves, checks his helmet, checks his bat, digs in at the plate, --and the pitcher wanders around the mound, shakes his head at a sign from the catcher, variously short time outs, etc. When they replay an entire game without all that stuff, but still include every pitch, every hit, every play, it takes less than 20 minutes to show a 3 1/2 hour game. And yet during that more than 3 hours when literally nothing is happening, each player on the defense especially has to stay focused and alert to game situations, situational trends for each batter, etc. Also, almost every team has 13 position players, which basically means 4 subs. If the 9 best all play 162 games, what at the subs for, especially in the AL where you don't have to pinch-hit for the pitcher? Since this is the countdown to the playoffs thread, a thought on that. I'm with Kimmi and the other cock-eyed optimists who are still rooting for the Sox to get into the playoffs--even though I fully recognize how sensible moonslav and others' pessimism is. I mean, it's just this simple: the rotation stinks because it stunk all year long. Not every game, of course, but way too often. Nevertheless, the Sox have just won 5 straight games even though three of the starters starters were ineligible for a win because they didn't pitch 5 innings or just stunk up the game or both.

All season long Cora and DD stuck with 13 pitchers on the roster, but now there are 12, apparently because of a compelling need for Owings, the same guy who pretty much ensured the Sox lost the one game he started at 2b. Can anyone explain this?

Good for tylerD

August 11, 2019 will go down in infamy as the day Cora started Owings at 2d base, leading off. Marco was at Pawtucket.

Smart pitch. Irresistible.

That’s a cheap shot with which I entirely agree. Batting him lead off was about as stupid.

Meh. The problem isn’t with Barnes, but with this execrable rotation. The bullpen entered in the 2 d inning and that dinger in the 8th was the first run off them. Cashner was the only bad pitcher in this game, and he was awful.

I’ll take Workman’s arm over any of the starters, this year, anyway.

True. But when he leaves the game, there is a bad odor left by that ERA of 5.67.

Seriously. What was Cora thinking?

Prophetic. Owings has no business wearing a MLB uniform, with the possible exception of bat boy. Sadly, the Angels knew this before Cora did.

Perhaps. I think the primary fault is with the rotation, which has been awful, top to bottom, whereas last year they were solid until late in the season. That said, just about everyone on talksox scoffed at how last year the Rays used their bullpen so much. Sometimes a reliever would start, and so on. Well, last night Johnson, who has started before, was pulled in the 3d inning and the Sox behind 3-0. In came Walden to finish the 3d and pitch the 4th and 5th, followed by Eovaldi for 2 more innings and giving up the 4th run, which by then was almost meaningless although they GIDP sure came in handy. Then there's the Yankees rotation, which is almost as bad as ours, but they have an excellent bullpen which makes a real difference. Cora compensates slightly for his mediocre bullpen by carrying 13 pitchers vs. last year when he carried 12-- and 11 in the postseason. We all know that decades ago starters often pitched complete games, but now it's a rarity. Let's not forget that in the interim MLB lowered the mound and this year the seams on the baseball, both with the express purpose of generating more offense under the assumption that's what brings the fans to games. The point is that the lines between starters and relievers are increasingly blurred. Last year the large investment in the rotation, including the addition of Eovaldi, seemed justified. This year, not--but the investment was already made. Thus, I think DD did it about right even though I agree the bullpen hasn't been so hot. By not adding bullpen help on 31 July, he was telling our high-price rotation to earn their pay, which they certainly have not done this year.

Home plate ump gave those 3 runs to LA when he called a clear strike 3 ball 4. I apologize for commenting on the game.

I don't see it. In the last 6 seasons, 2014 thru 2019, Sale has pitched against LAA exactly 3 times--this year, superb, 2017, pretty darn good (6 innings, 0 runs), and 2014, not so hot (7 innings 5 runs, 4 earned). 3 games is a miniscule sample vs the 24 games he started this year alone. He had one other great game this year, June, against the KC, when he pitched a shutout. June overall was a good month, ERA 2.79. But July and August have been pretty awful until last night. Also, FWIW, this year's Angels are 12th in MLB in runs scored. 2 years ago when he shut the Angels out for 6 innings, they were 22d in runs scored. The only think I will grant Jung is that Sale has been so bad this year, it's really hard to claim this one game is proof he has turned things around. So of course we have to see some more. If he has turned it around, I can only add it couldn't happen to a better guy.