Maxbialystock

I also think the Jays starter has gotten more calls than Sale and don't think that's the problem. The problem is whatever he is throwing is too hittable.

Let's not forget the two errors, one by Beni and one by Nunez. I love game threads because I get to vent when I'm disappointed. And right now, after how well the Sox played the Twins, swept the Orioles, and took the last 2 from the Rangers, I'm mad as hell. Wake up, guys!

I said it elsewhere and it was ignored, so I'll say it again here. The bullpen isn't great, but it's not a weakness. Actually, they are a bargain--the top five (Barnes, Brasier, Walden, Workman, and Hembree) are collectively being paid $5.1M and have a collective WAR of 4.2. The four starters--Sale, Price, Porcello, and ERod--are collectively paid $88M and have a collective WAR of 4.8. Sale isn't Sale any more. Price has become Mr. Fragile. ERod steadfastly remains the kid with potential but no command, and Porcello the veteran with a lot of pitches, but none of them great, and must have terrific command to succeed--which doesn't happen all that often.

RISP disease is rampant on this team.

That single was off a slider below the zone. The other two were low in the zone, a slider and a fastball. Sale was definitely off, but that was just bad luck and maybe a bad call by Leon. No question that Sale hit his target.

Not a bad guess on the lineup though.

A front apparently just went through Boston, so this game will likely be played. Even with Sale on the mound, a win tonight is not assured, but the Sox are playing very well right now and no doubt want this to be the second win of another longish streak. With Devers presumably resting his hammie, I think Cora will move Bogie up to 4th, Holt up to 5th, Chavis 6th, Bradley 7th, Nunez 8th and Leon 9th. First three will remain Betts, Benintendi, and Martinez. Sox have lost both games in which Devers did not play this year--extremely small sample size. Remember those recent great grabs Devers made going back for pop flies? Nunez doesn't do those. He's pretty good at getting his glove on ground balls hit to the right or left, just not good at actually fielding them. His OPS is .571--lower than Leon's .582. Devers has the 3d best WAR on the team, 2.6. Nunez has the worst, -.8. Chavis now has a 9 game hitting streak, 12 for 41, .292. He had 6 hits in the 12 games before that.

That word is no doubt a bad habit of mine. I do think, however, that house money simply means this year we should be somewhat forgiving of the stumbles because last year was close to the best year in Red Sox history. I think Cora had something to do with that, so I'm especially unwilling to dump on him. And neither he nor the players think it's "okay to lose."

Meh. House money can also mean earned fan loyalty. Are you saying you've lost yours because you expected the Sox to be better?

Short and sweet. No starters. None. Too expensive and too risky. No position players either. We have plenty of talent already even with Nunez and Pearce having bad years and Mookie and Beni also a little down. Maybe a reliever or two, but nobody like Kimbrel. Trading Devers for anyone, even Scherzer, would be a blunder.

Heck, this year I've always thought of the bullpen as a strength even though there have definitely been some bad moments/games. It's always great, however, to see some stats from moonslav to back that impression up. Another--no doubt specious--way of looking at the bullpen is to say that the five best (Walden, Workman, Brasier, Barnes, Hembree) are paid a total of $5.1M and their combined WAR is 4.2. The top four starters (Price, Sale, Porcello, ERod) are paid a total of $88M and their combined WAR is 4.8. "Wait just a minute," you are no doubt thinking. "What about the cotton-picking innings pitched?" Glad you asked. The starters (just those 4) have pitched a humoungous 330 innings, and the weakling bullpen (just those 5) have pitched a paltry 166 innings, which is almost exactly half of what the starters have thrown. In other words, DD has spent a fortune on the rotation, and nickels and dimes on the bullpen, and the latter are pretty much outperforming the former. So I wouldn't recommend that DD go after another expensive starter, but probably get some bullpen help. Reinforce success, not failure.

Yes, but you said what I've been thinking lately--Sox are a good bet for the postseason, but not overtaking the Yankees.

Sox are clearly good enough make the postseason, but catching the Yankees is daunting.

All good points. What was different about Tuesday night was Price apparently telling Cora he shouldn't be sent out to pitch the 6th. And I think Cora agreed with him because of the two games just prior. Both apparently were willing to err on the side of caution. Moreover, Price normally only goes 6 innings anyway, so leaving 1 inning early was hardly that big a deal. I think results are important. Grady Little probably got fired after the 2013 season because he didn't pull Pedro soon enough in the ALCS vs. the Yankees, but he would have been fine if Pedro had gotten thru that last inning without getting hammered. Tuesday night Cora did pull Price early, and the Twins were held scoreless in the next two innings. Had Price pitched not one but two more scoreless innings, Workman still would have been a great choice to pitch the 8th. That is why I don't understand the attacks on Cora.

We don't know whether Price was hurt, but do know he said he asked not to go back out for the 6th, which, by the way, has been his normal limit this year. That's right. In 15 starts he has gone 7 innings once, 6.1 innings once, six innings 5 times, five innings 3 times, 1.1 innings once, and .2 innings once. Also, on May 20 he went just 5 innings while only throwing 67 pitches. Also, on June 8 he threw his most pitches this season, 103, while going 6 innings. The next game he went 1.1 innings. I honestly think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what David Price can give us this year--and no doubt come from the bobby valentine school of managing.

Dead right. Kelly was fantastic in the playoffs, but absolutely did not "lead" the bullpen in the regular season. The guy has some really good pitches, but not really good command--as the Dodgers are learning.

He didn't pull him. He simply didn't send him out for the 6th because Price asked him not to. Price made that clear after the game. But you are missing one gigantic point in your obsession to attack Cora. No way, no how, was Price going to go more than 7 innings, and the two guys who pitched the 6th and 7th gave up no runs. So who comes in to pitch the 8th? Workman, whose ERA is whose ERA is 1.82 compared to Price's 3.39. He was absolutely the right guy to send out for the 8th, except that he's the one who gave up the tying run. So puling Price didn't cost anything. Heck, Workman giving up a run only tied the game. The Sox had 5 innings to score a 3d run, which would have won the game, and could no do so. You are also glossing over the fact that the night before Cora let Porcello--who hasn't been nearly as good as Price this year and who was facing the toughest lineup in MLB--go 7 innings. And he did the same thing last with ERod, who this year is even worse than Porcello.

I regret signing off (early bed time) around the 4th inning, but was delighted to awake to a big win. If you will look near the end of the 17 inning game thread, you will read me saying it was a good loss and that clearly the Sox competitive spirit was back. Last year's team is back.

I generally prefer to disagree with you, but will not argue that repeating last year is anything but guaranteed. It's even a longshot at this point. At the same time, however, I believe the Twins series was a watershed event, including the loss, which was anything but a bad loss. And I said that after the game and well before last night's game. Price asked not to go back out for the 6th, and Cora and the bullpen responded beautifully even though the Sox lost in the 17th. The proof was how the Sox demolished the Twins in game 3. Last year's team is back, and they are ready to keep winning. If Uehara in 2013 form were available, I would be more enthusiastic about getting a great closer, but, honestly, Kimbrel poisoned that well for me last year. He was and is an overpaid prima donna who folded like a cheap tent in the postseason. Brasier and Kelly and even Eovaldi (normally a starter) were a whole bunch better. This year Kelly is just one more earthquake in LA, Brasier has struggled, and Eovaldi is on the IL. So, basically, we need Cora and his pitching coach to be clairvoyant for the rest of the season in terms who comes in for a given inning. That bullpen has already carried a lot of water this season because the rotation has been inconsistent. Oh, in case you missed it, I pointed out exactly how Cora was masterful in the middle game (17 innings) of the Twins series and will be happy to repeat that for you. Maybe because I'm older--my Sox fandom began in 1949, 55 years before the end (2004) of the Curse--I am not spoiled by the humoungous success of the John Henry era in Boston. Thus to me our Sox cup runneth over with four WS wins in 14 years. So, me, right now I'm pretty darn happy with this team and this manager. That winning streak and taking 2 of 3 vs. the Twins was no fluke. this is a solid team with no big weaknesses, not even our underpaid and over-maligned bullpen.

Watching ERod is just too painful.

I just checked. The Sox are 13-2 in games this year in which Vazquez did not play.

The pen so far has been a bargain. Our five best are paid $5.5M, less than half of what Kimbrel will get this year from the Cubs. That said, they are still only decent. The rotation hurt us beyond question. Neither Sale nor Price is so far at his best. ERod has still not taken that next step to being really consistent. Porcello is hot and cold. Eovaldi is rehabbing or getting ready to rehab or something. Overall, it's fair to say the pitching is the big problem this year. The lineup has an OPS of .784 compared to last year's .792, which led MLB. Not a big difference. They have scored 399 runs in 75 games, which is 5.32 runs per game. Last year they scored 876 runs in 162 games, which is 5.41 runs per game. Again, not a big difference, and last year's Sox led MLB in runs and OPS. So our lineup is fine and will likely get better. Fielding. It think right now it's pretty good. Bogie lacks range but is very consistent. Devers is transformed from earlier this year (and all the seasons before) and has range (especially on pops over his head) and vastly fewer errors. The outfield is still very good. We lost gold glove Kinsler at 2B, but, except for Nunez, I'm fine with whoever has played there. 1b also fine. Leon is easily the better catcher, but Vazquez is decent and a better hitter. And JDM has not made a single error at DH.

Perhaps. But, frankly, if there can such a thing as a good loss, I think last night was it. The defense--especially JBJ and Vazquez who both literally prevented runs--was excellent. Price was better than I expected and even a little lucky because they were hitting his changeup hard. The bullpen was again very good despite the final inning and despite Workman (ERA 1.82) giving up the 1 run in the 8th. The lineup did in fact get the Sox a lead 3 different times even though they were 1 for 13 with RISP. This was a 5:45 marathon and their 15th game in 14 days, and their is no doubt in my mind they were battling the whole game.

You are darn right it's odd and was in fact asked about after the game. Cora kind of waffled and said, given Price's last start, it was important to "take care of him a little." Price himself admitted he had wanted to be able to do more and that the decision not to was "not on Alex." All this hollaballo about pulling Price after 5 would make more sense if the bullpen had not gone the next 7 innings, giving up 1 run and had not the 1 run been at the expense of Workman, whose ERA is 1.82. In other words, I'm not just defending Cora. I'm arguing he was masterful last night and the carping critics don't know what the heck they are talking about.

And this. Thanks again to Thunder--with a little help from the Sox--for the 6 game winning streak.