Maxbialystock

I honestly could care less about late-season lineup bolstering when the lineup overall has been good this year and the real problem is with the rotation. That is also why I started a thread on Owings because I still do not understand why, with such a terrible rotation, DD and Cora went with 12 pitchers instead of the 13 they had been using all year--and added Owings to the roster instead. When Sale, Price, Porcello, Eovaldi, and--oh, yes--Cashner have been this awful, to me the bullpen becomes more important by far than fringe moves with guys like Owings. As for JBJ, I'm sort of on the fence but right now would tend to play him, at least until the Sox are clearly out of the wild card, which could happen during this present 7 game string vs the Twins and Yankees. I'm not sure he's worth all of that $8M he's getting, but he is still a good centerfielder who now and then can hit and has an OPS of .731.

Last night was a classic game in terms of this season. The lineup wasn't great, but did score 5 runs including dingers by Devers and Benintendi. But Porcello was determined to keep those pitches up and hittable with the inevitable result--6 runs in 4 innings. DD invested heavily in the rotation--over $90M this year (and not including Sale's new contract starting next year)--and it has come a cropper (except for ERod, who is having his best year).

Great start to a game thread.

He has indeed. Only May, ERA 3.34, was better than August, ERA 4.00. But then June was 6.42. So we'll just have to see.

25 games to go, of which 13 are at Fenway, where the Sox, thanks to weak pitching, are .500 (and 9 games above .500 on the road). The Sox are 5.5 behind the Guardians and 6 behind the Rays for one of the two wild card slots. The next 7 games are all against the two best hitting teams--Twins and Yankees--in MLB who will hit against a patch-together rotation with one good guy, ERod, and the rest (Porcello, Price, Eovaldi, and TBD) problematical. I am not at all saying the Twins and Yankees will smoke the Sox, but am saying that's more likely than the reverse.

13 of the 25 games left are at Fenway, where the Sox to date are .500. And 9 games over .500 on the road. I'm no doubt wrong, but have the impression that Fenway is tough on weak pitchers, which the Sox have had in abundance this season. Also three tough series--3 vs. the Twins, 4 vs. the Yankees, and 4 vs. the Rays--for a total of 11 games in those 25. The Sox are battling three pretty good teams--Rays, Guardians, and A's--for the two wild card slots and are 5.5 and 6 games behind the Rays and Guardians. The pitching remains problematical and the next 7 games are against two of the best hitting teams--Twins and Yankees--in MLB. Not impossible, of course, but almost.

Not sure, but I think ERod is starting tonight, Tuesday, Sep 3.

Pen help is bound to be a crapshoot unless you spend big, which DD can't afford this year.

You could be right, but I don't see it that way. For one thing, the wild card is still possible. For another, the lineup is still pretty good--those to execrable losses to the Phillies notwithstanding-- and lately so is the bullpen. The problem all season long has been the rotation, the overpaid guys who to a man have stunk--except of course for ERod. The rotation is why I have a lot of sympathy for moonslav59's turn toward pessimism.

Funny you should bring that up because I started a thread about Owings I was so darn mad. I still don't understand why he is with the big club, and I do see a need for another reliever (given that our starters are in such disarray). I don't think I agree with oldtimer that "youngsters" from the farm should be brought up before September, which is now 10 days away.

Horrible game so far. No excuse for the lineup getting just two measly runs. Stupid play by Vazquez. And once again Porcello shows his inability to go low in the strike zone, thus a hanging slider. Porcello is fine throwing the ball into the dirt.

I thought the idea of the 2013 trade was to get some insurance for the pennant and the postseason, and I could swear 2013 had a pretty good outcome for which Iglesias was absolutely not needed because the Sox had two SS’s without him. Also, there was no guarantee Bogie would be better at 3b than at SS. Remember all the complaints about Devers at 3b? Also, why don’t the Tigers pay Iglesias more if they love him so much and other teams are trying to get him? One reason is his hitting, and the other is he is injury prone. That was my gripe with JD Drew, a much better player than Iglesias.

Wild applause for bosoxmal!!! i'm not sure I agree, but am getting tired of all the moaning and groaning. What has impressed me recently is that the hitting has been mostly good and sometimes even good enough to overcome big deficits to win. Plus the bullpen is looking pretty good, ERod is having a career year, and Porcello, despite having a terrible year, is still capable of a good start now and then. Last night was not a terrible loss. Nola pitched great, and JBJ still got that 2 run dinger in the 3d. Johnson stunk, but not completely because he went 3.1 giving up the 3 runs (all in the 1st). So good decision by Cora to leave him in and then later to pull him in the 4th. Then the bullpen was superb, but the lineup couldn't quite deliver, which I credit mostly to excellent pitching by the Phillies.

Back on my hobby horse. To me it's absurd to claim boneheaded plays are a significant cause of games lost this year. Why? Because the Sox ERA is the worst, 4.71, in the John Henry era(back to 2002), but the runs scored are 2d best in MLB and will likely be more than last year's Sox. The pitching is far and away the reason for this so-so season. I am not defending Bogaerts on that play, which was wrong, but will defend him for the overall season he has had to date, including any and all errors committed in the field. If the starters had had seasons as good as Bogie's, the Sox would again be running away with the AL East.

Reminds me of the argument/discussion back in 2013 when the Sox had three SS's--Bogie (who played 3B now and then), Iglesias (a brilliant defensive SS) and Drew, who was the primary starting SS. The Sox wanted one more starter and o/a 1 August trade Igelesias to the Tigers, who later met the Sox in the ALCS with Iglesias as their starting SS. I hated losing Iglesias, who to me was like having another Ozzie Smith, but have to admit that over the years Bogie has been far more valuable to the Sox than Iglesias has been to the Tigers. And this. Last year the Sox hit pretty well, but it was nevertheless an unending litany on talksox that the bottom of the order was just killing us.

I don't approve of the DH, but do like what the Sox have done with that position. JDM is definitely above average for a DH, but at $22M is also pricey. Last year that made a lot of sense because it was obvious that the addition of JDM made the whole lineup better. This year he's still pretty good, as is the lineup, but the drivers now are Devers and Bogie, both of whom are in the top ten in MLB in runs batted in. They are also #1 and #3 in doubles. And Betts is still #1 in runs scored.

I'm inclined to agree baseball is different if only because the dynamics of hitting and pitching are so variable. However. Dave Roberts key theft of 2d base in the 2004 ALCS was definitely clutch because it was doable, essential, and not without risk. You could probably make a similar argument for Beni's game-ending grab in Houston last October.

I don't know what the fix is. You would know far better than I. But I do agree DD is not the right guy to make it.

Wow. It always stuns me when Sox fans turn on the players. I agree Bogie made a bad decision going to 3b on a grounder to the left, but I am also aware that the Sox, including JDM on that very at bat, were 0 for 7 with RISP. So I remain unconvinced that play cost the Sox the game. In fact, had he made it safely to 3b, the Sox would not have had to get a doggone hit to bring him home. What cost the Sox the game in my not so humble opinion was solid pitching by the Phillies, especially their starter, who had not only four good pitches--fastball, changeup, curve, and slider--but good command of them. Thus wild applause for JBJ nailing one of the very few mistakes Nola made last night. Yes, Johnson was terrible in the 1st inning, but he actually went 3.1 innings and gave up only the 3 in the 1st. The Sox were still in the game, especially when the bullpen went 5.1 scoreless innings. But the Sox lineup just could not deliver with RISP, not because they are a bunch of boneheads, but because the Phillies pitching was good.

Meh. He has invested more in the rotation than in the lineup or the bullpen. Price is $31M/year, Porcello $21M, Sale $15M (but just extended at $25M+ per year), Eovaldi $17M, and ERod $4M. I'm not sure what Cashner is paid by the Sox for 2 months. Last year the rotation, basically the same guys as this year, was good enough to win 108 games plus 11 of 14 in the postseason. This year, almost complete collapse except for ERod who is having a career year.

I know you don't visit the Realistic thread all that often, so allow me to inform you that only occasionally is it about a Realistic View of 2019, Part I and Part II. More often, it's about almost anything related or even not related to the Boston Red Sox. Realistically, the 2019 playoffs train seems to have left the station without the Sox, but then I remember Lori Petty and Geena Davis actually running to catch a train that would in fact take them to the AAGPBL and conclude the Sox right now are only mostly dead. Besides, as I've said before, I am still happy to root for the lineup players (except Owings of course) and even the bullpen. I reserve my enmity for the rotation (less ERod who at 26 seems headed for his best season). Lately I've also thought a lot about the new semi-seamless baseball and it's dramatic effect on hitting and pitching in MLB. It would appear that other teams, especially their rotations, have adjusted more easily than ours.

Exactly. To me it's OK to be furious with the rotation who are paid a ton of money and have not delivered, but at the same time to root like crazy for the Sox to win. I'm still irritated that Owings is on the roster, but otherwise am fine with it. And I notice these days Cora is more than willing to pull a starter early and well before what used to be the "7 run rule." Plus someone else said even losing teams should try to win in order to be fair to all the teams that are still in the hunt.

I'm in favor of rest days because frankly I think it is impossible to stay on your game playing on average 6 games per week for 26 straight weeks and including huge amounts of tedium during each game while the batter adjusts his gloves, checks his helmet, checks his bat, digs in at the plate, --and the pitcher wanders around the mound, shakes his head at a sign from the catcher, variously short time outs, etc. When they replay an entire game without all that stuff, but still include every pitch, every hit, every play, it takes less than 20 minutes to show a 3 1/2 hour game. And yet during that more than 3 hours when literally nothing is happening, each player on the defense especially has to stay focused and alert to game situations, situational trends for each batter, etc. Also, almost every team has 13 position players, which basically means 4 subs. If the 9 best all play 162 games, what at the subs for, especially in the AL where you don't have to pinch-hit for the pitcher? Since this is the countdown to the playoffs thread, a thought on that. I'm with Kimmi and the other cock-eyed optimists who are still rooting for the Sox to get into the playoffs--even though I fully recognize how sensible moonslav and others' pessimism is. I mean, it's just this simple: the rotation stinks because it stunk all year long. Not every game, of course, but way too often. Nevertheless, the Sox have just won 5 straight games even though three of the starters starters were ineligible for a win because they didn't pitch 5 innings or just stunk up the game or both.

All season long Cora and DD stuck with 13 pitchers on the roster, but now there are 12, apparently because of a compelling need for Owings, the same guy who pretty much ensured the Sox lost the one game he started at 2b. Can anyone explain this?

Good for tylerD