Maxbialystock

Not for the team, but absolutely for Sale, Price, and Porcello, the big money boys who ain't delivering. And it's for us fans too. He's saying he has done his job in assembling a high-priced but certainly very capable team--see last year, the best in Sox history--and that now it is up to them (Sale, Price, and Porcello) to earn their pay. I will go one step further and state that the last thing he should have done was to try to build a great bullpen to compensate for the inability of those three to earn their pay.

Back to the thread topic. I love John Henry's earlier statement that he ain't spending much more this year because it's already the highest payroll in MLB. In other words, it's time for the players to step up and show they are worth all that money. And I think it's really all about those three starters--Sale, Price, and Porcello. They are the ones underperforming, especially with regard to their immense salaries, and now they are out in the open. That's is, DD and JH refuse to pay a king's ransom or trade away excellent players/prospects to build a world-class bullpen to cover for the inability of our starters to do their jobs. I love it.

Nicely done, fredlynn. And I think John Henry is dead right.

Apparently, he said very little new because he has made it clear all along that he and his boss have shelled out a lot of money for players good enough to win 108 games, 11 of 14 postseason games, and the WS just one year ago. They think, and I wholeheartedly agree with them, that it's up to the players to perform. The lineup players--the guys I call the 12 angry men--are doing just fine and leading MLB in runs scored. The bullpen ain't that great, but they ain't getting paid much. So, clearly and irrefutably, management, including the owner, is singling out the rotation, which is paid a king's ransom and is vastly under performing this year. And I think they are right to do so.

Sale, Price, Porcello, Eovaldi, and ERod are getting paid $88M this year. Our best starter, ERod, is also the lowest paid.

If you throw in Eovaldi and ERod, the total is $88M. The frustrating reality is that the Sox best starter this year, ERod, is also the lowest paid by far.

Everybody see how Beni struck out? The Rays pitcher threw a fastball and then a slider to the exact same spot spot on the outside corner. When he needed to for an out. The Sox do not have a single pitcher who do that.

In the case of this hit, it was the ball that was seeing better.

The inconsistent rotation is old news that began with the season-opening road trip. ERod alone has gotten better. Sale and Price and even Porcello have had good games, but none of them can be counted on. Jung nailed it when he said none of these guys has good command. That applies to the bullpen too.

If Sale were the only problem, I might see the value of adding further to the bullpen, but Price and Porcello also stink.

I'm frankly stunned at all the naysayers now lambasting DD for not making a move when he in fact has already done just that. He traded for Cashner, and moved Eovaldi to the bullpen, which should have enough to get the job done. Throwing a bunch more middling relievers at the problem ain't going to fix it. And the price for Diaz was too high. And just maybe Cashner can be as good as his last start and become a reliable 5th starter. As far as I am concerned, DD has done his job. I also think it's time for Sale, Price, and Porcello to get their heads on straight and start earning some of the insane amount of money they are being paid.

Meh. DD also didn't get rid of anyone. This current team has pretty much the same people as last year's winners of 108 and 11 of 14 in the postseason who are also being paid more than any other team in MLB.

Gotta agree with the "must win" comment. Time is running out, and Oakland is now 2 games up on the Sox for the final wild card--and the Guardians are 2 up on them. The Rays are 1.5 up on the Sox. Sox have 54 games left.

I used to live and die by batting averages but these days prefer OPS even though the silver sluggers still go to the best BA's. This year Devers and Bogaerts are leading the Sox in most batting stats: average, dingers, rbi's, total bases, doubles--but Betts ain't giving up in the runs scored department. He has 98, which leads MLB. #2 is Devers with 88, and Bogie is tied for 3d with Bellinger at 85.

Ain't it great we are remembering all those details from last year's postseason? I know the Sox won 3 of 4, 4 of 5, and 4 of 5, but all three series to me were closer than that. Beni's catch is a reminder that the Astros were a tougher out than 4 of 5 would indicate. Ditto the Yankees. I thought, going in, that the Dodgers were going to get trounced. But game 3 in LA that lasted 48 innings or whatever, with the Dodgers winning, scared the heck out of me. And the Yankees split at Fenway (which led to playing New York, New York in the locker room) before going down at Yankee Stadium. My point is that baseball can still be great precisely because almost nothing is a sure thing.

Sure it was important, which is why it was voted the best defensive play of the year. It wasn't that great a catch, but it saved the Sox ass. I doubt the Sox lose the ALCS is he doesn't make that catch. I happen to be very much in favor of good defense because it is the poetry of baseball, especially given the very prosaic nature of pitching and hitting. But to me one enduring reality of Red Sox baseball is that hitting is way more important than defense. Last night, to cite a recent example, Mookie made a couple of great grabs to prevent doubles/triples, but the pitching still did us in--and brother Price finally said screw it and gave up two solo, uncatchable gopher balls in the 5th. Back to Beni. I do not get this insistence he is out of shape, can't defend, etc because to me he looks about the same as ever and certainly as trim as ever. I do remember his saying a couple or so years ago that he needed to beef up in the offseason because the 6 games a week for 26 weeks was wearing--and it is. Back to defense. Neither Bogie nor Devers is a great defender, but you ain't going to hear me complain. JBJ is still pretty good defensively--despite my complaints--but his hitting slumps are getting to be a tad expensive.

What form? He had a marginal fastball and an over-reliance on that big knuckle curve. There were times when I was sure he was so afraid to throw the ball that he was going to walk off the mound and out of the game. His 2017 was a dead ringer for Ellsbury's 2011--never to be repeated.

Completely agree except for "the rest of the team is good to go" because that is simply not true. The Sox team ERA is 20th in MLB, which more than overcomes the terrific hitting--the Sox lead MLB in runs scored by a margin of 19. I do not think a couple of relievers can fix that, but agree that's all DD should do because the Sox pitching as a whole is irredeemable. Right now Mr. Inconsistent, the very guy who has given us fits in the past, is our best and most consistent starter--ERod.

Back to a Realistic View of 2019, Part II. Right now I'd have to say the Sox are in trouble simple because their pitching is so awful. DD spent big bucks--$88M, not including Cashner-- for a good to great rotation, and they've been inconsistent at best. Especially Price and Sale and Porcello. He went cheap on the bullpen and is basically getting what he paid for. The Sox ERA is 20th in MLB. Only 8 teams have had more runs scored against them. One year ago the Sox had the 7th best ERA in MLB. It's semi-miraculous the Sox are playing winning baseball--and that's almost entirely because of the non-pitching part of the team--12 angry men, who currently lead MLB in runs scored by a margin of 19 runs. Those 12 angry men have to be wondering what it takes to get this team back on track. Last weekend the Sox took the first three from the Yankees by scoring 19, 10, and 9 runs. In game 4 they scored a very nice 6 runs, only to go down, 9-6. Last night they took out a very good Morton (ERA 2.78) in the 5th, and finished with 5 runs, only to lose 6-5 because Price ran out of gas at somewhere around 80 pitches, after which he gave up 2 solo dingers and the lead (which the Sox took back, but then the bullpen gave up that lead). Did I forget to mention that the Sox starter in game 4 vs. the Yankees was none other than Chris Sale? Our former ace went 5.1 innings and gave up 6 runs. In the 3d and 4th innings both, he walked the lead off batters and then served up gopher balls for two run dingers.

I'm pissed at Sale, but fundamentally agree with you because I have never seen a more professional, focused pitcher. His fast ball, cut fast ball, changeup, and slider are all pretty good, but I wish he had a big curve and that he was better working the lower part of the zone.

Sadly, I use DWAR but sure can't defend it because sometimes the numbers seem spurious. That said, we are talking about the oxymoronic notion that defense is important for Red Sox leftfielders. It is only if your name is Hanley Ramirez. Even Ted Williams--Jimmy Piersall's complaints notwithstanding--was adequate. So was Manny, even when being Manny. Overall, though, I grant you are not exactly attacking Beni at a time when others on talksox are. We agree that in general--there are always exceptions--he is a keeper. I just like to argue.

Be glad to. Heaven help any of us who don't value defense, but the Red Sox left field position is almost uniquely one that requires less defense than any other, with the possible exception of DH. As for no longer coming in on balls--remember, please, we are talking about the shortest left field in MLB, MILB, and maybe even Little League--why is his DWAR appreciably better than last year's? And you "don't mind keeping" Beni? Talk about damning with faint praise. His cumulative WAR with the Sox is 9.3, and his cumulative salary is $1.9M. He was a great bargain when he came up and still is. More to the point, the Sox do not have another outfielder--except for Mookie of course--with anywhere near his value.

We are talking about a Boston Red Sox leftfielder, aren't we? You know, the same job held by Ted Williams, Manny Ramirez, etc, etc. Sox leftfielders are paid to hit and hopefully play the green monster acceptably well. FWIW, last year Beni's DWAR was -.6. This year it's -.1. Thanks to his OPS of .827, his overall WAR is 2.3, 5th best in MLB. And the team control thing. Yeah, probably a keeper.

Williams Bendix. A lot of movies in addition to the Life of Riley. Not a lot of range as an actor, but what he could do was cherce.

If anyone doubts the considerable value of game threads for those who need to vent, just read this from jung. Me, I like stats and sometimes even use quality starts, but I share jung's frustration with our rotation, especially our two presumptive aces. I sort of share his frustration with the big shifts, but do remember that Lou Boudreau of the Guardians used the "Williams shift" in the 1940's when he was player-manager of the Guardians. Only 3b and LF stayed to the left--and not very far left--of the line thru 2b.