Maxbialystock

It's the lineup that stinks. Crawford is the savior of western civilization as we know it.

1. My bad on Houck vs. Crawford--I believed today's OP. Of course, we might also see Houck in relief today. 2. Your insistence that Houck and/or Whitlock should have been closing from day one flies in the face of Cora's demonstrated ability to get the most out of his pitching staffs, including his bullpens. You and TylerD both seem to think he's an idiot. 3. Both Houck and Whitlock have demonstrated they are good at long relief and even at starting. As I keep reminding you, the rules of MLB allow opposing teams to score in any inning, not just the 9th. The value of Houck and Whitlock was/is the ability to throw more than one inning in relief--and even more as starters. 4. Neither Whitlock nor Houck has demonstrated an ability to close--mostly, I quite agree, because Cora wants to use them differently. Nevertheless, we did see Houck close Friday night, and I think he was more lucky than good: 22 pitches needed, plus he gave up a hit and a hard hit out. 4. Last year for, what, half a season, we saw what a real closer looked like--Barnes with his mammoth knuckle curve alternating with that upper 90's fastball. Before last year, Barnes used a bigger repertoire and was middling successful as a reliever. But once that knuckle curve got good, he just needed those two pitches to get 3 guys out when needed. In 2013 Koji Uehara had a slow fastball (87 mph?), a nasty splitter, great command, and the guts of a cat burglar. In the 2018 regular season Kimbrel used basically what Barnes did last year--a great knuckle curve and high velocity fastball (even faster than Barnes's last year). Nobody, but nobody on this team reminds me of Barnes when he was good, Kimbrel, Uehara, Papelbon, et al. 5. Robles has closed successfully in the past. Whatever he is throwing has been reasonably effective this season--except when he is closing.

Solid OP. Good news on the late games.

One more time. Last October in the wild card win, the ALDS win over the Rays, and the ALCS loss to the Astros, the Sox went 6-5 in the postseason. In those six wins they did not get a single save. In the five losses, their only blown save was in the 6th inning. In the 2018 postseason, far and away the Sox best reliever was Kelly, who got zero saves. Instead, Kimbrel, with his 5.19 postseason ERA, got 6 saves, and in 4 of those saves he gave up at least one run in every game. Last night was a good example of why it's great to have a reliable closer, but the Sox under Cora have demonstrated they can win without a reliable closer. Also, as I've said before, Houck has yet to demonstrate he's a solid closer. He needed 22 pitches to get 3 outs Friday night, plus he gave up a hit, plus his final out was a very hard hit ball right to Story.

I'm going to remind you of this now and then. Why? Because Houck has never demonstrated he is a bonafide closer--including the lucky save, needing 22 pitches to get 3 outs, he was awarded Friday night. Also because Houck is starting today, which he has a much better skill set to do well. In fact, he has started far more often than he has closed. Cora would rather use him as a reliever, but he's fresh out of starters. Also because Robles may stink right now as a closer, but he has done that job before with a modicum of success. Plus he had the 4th lowest ERA on the staff going into last night's game. If you are looking for, in your words, a "f***ing moron," you make take a peek in the mirror sometime.

To me the significance of Houck the night before was that he needed 22 freaking pitches to get 3 outs. Plus he gave up a hit and the final out was a scorcher Story caught--a save by the skin of his teeth. Houck has been pretty good this season, especially in longer relief and in the middle innings; but Friday night was hardly the debut of a great closer. As for Robles pitching the 9th and blowing a 1 run lead and the game last night, I agree it was horrible, terrible, ugly, you name it. But guess what? Going into last night's game his ERA was 2.37, 4th best on the Sox pitching staff. Plus Robles actually has previous experience as a closer. Cora has given about six thousand guys chances to close games this year, and all of them stunk. About 3 weeks ago (May 24), Barnes actually did get a save after pitching a clean 9th inning. However, on two of his three outs the Mariners hit the ball really hard, but right at someone. Right now I simply don't see a bonafide closer on this team. Houck could start, but I like him as a long reliever and do not yet see him as a closer. Whitlock has never demonstrated he's a closer even though he's your personal choice. Bottom line: this weak bullpen, including its lack of a closer, is on Bloom. Oh, and how about a little blame for the actual relievers on the mound who blew all those save opportunities?

He threw 105 pitches in the complete game, which is hardly onerous. He threw 92 pitches vs. the Jays on 27 April and in his next game vs. the Angels he went 5.2 shutout innings.

JDM finally got a dinger last night, so tonight is my chance to apologize again to redsoxrules for my comments on last night's thread.

I was wrong to jump on you. I got over-defensive and way to willing to slam back. I'm fine with the way JDM is this season, but you absolutely were/are entitled to that comment. In fact, the commentators have been beating that drum for awhile.

Wrong about the lineup. Verdugo is back in LF, Cordero in RF, and the Sox have 4 lefty bats including Devers and JBJ. Story leads off in lieu of Refsnyder (on the bench) and Verdugo is back batting 5th. Hitters 2 thru 4 and 6 thru 9 remain the same as last night.

delete

Wacha vs. Kirby, both righties. Sox beat Kirby May 19, 12-6. He's a rookie off to a decent start (3.38 ERA and 1.09 WHIP). Wacha threw 105 pitches his last time out--a no-baloney 3 hit shutout, all 9 innings. The White Sox hit him hard on May 26, but no one else has in 9 total starts and an ERA of 1.99, WHIP 0.91. Game again starts 10:10 pm. Whitlock (right hip--similar to Eovaldi's issue, but he is cleared to play) now on 15 day IL. Valdez back with the Sox. Today's Sox roster shows 14 pitchers and 12 position players. Cora loves to change his lineup, but, even though last night's Seattle starter was a lefty and tonight's is a righty, I think he will go with the same lineup: Refsnyder RF, Devers 3b, JDM DH, Bogey SS, Story 2b, Vazquez C, Cordero LF (where he looked better than I ever remember him looking in RF), Bradley CF, and Dalbec 1b.

Well said. I too fell asleep and had to rewatch this morning. Minimalist hitting, but still 4 runs. Hill @ 2 runs in 4.1 innings about right for him. Defense did not impress. So the game award goes to the Sox bullpen, who gave up 1 run in 4.2 innings they got the win, 2 holds, and the save. One game at a time.

Actually, I like moonslav's point, which I wish had occurred to me. Just maybe the fact that JDM has hit fewer dingers this year is why his OPS is an excellent .974 and ranked 7th in MLB. His career OPS is .884.

Wait. I would now like to severely chastise Devers for striking out in his 3d at bat vs. Gonzalez tonight. As I understand it, no pitcher can get hitters out the third time through the lineup, so obviously Devers is a putz and overpaid at $11M this year.

I am currently committing the cardinal sin of enjoying a highly competitive low-scoring game. Neither pitcher is dazzling, but both are keeping the score low. Best of all, Hill is outpitching Gonzalez. I do apologize for not chastising every single Sox player for not meeting the very high standards we have on talksox.

So true. What a shmuck he is with that rotten OPS of .974. We need your perspective to realize how truly bad these Sox players are. I mean, why even watch these stupid games when they can't meet your standards?

That doesn't bother me nearly as much as that he needed 22 pitches to get three batters out. I like pitching to contact as long as it isn't solid contact.

Good at bats, but then Vazquez screwed the pooch with that K and the bases full. Gonzalez threw 44 pitches in the 1st.

Refsnyder RF Devers 3B Martinez DH Bogey SS Story 2B Cordero LF Vazquez C Bradley CF Dalbec 1B I see 3 lefty bats and 6 righty, including Refsnyder.

Hill (4.40) vs Marco Gonzalez (3.59), both lefties, edge to Mariners. Mariners start seven righty bats in their lineup. Sox lineup TBD--start time is 10:10. One game at a time.

Great stuff, as always. Thanks. My view is a little simpler. Thanks to Devers, Bogey, and JDM--and maybe even Story--the Sox hitting is getting back to the standard needed for the Sox to succeed in the toughest division in MLB. The problem, however, is that those first three want more money. The pitching is just the opposite. Bloom and John Henry are still paying $36M for Sale and Price, who have done zilch for this team this year--and hardly anything for last year's team. Eovaldi @ $17M/year was a good addition, but is pricey compared to Pivetta, who has the same WAR, 1.2, and is paid just $3M, and Wacha, WAR 2.0, who is paid $7M. Whitlock and Houck are even bigger bargains. So my no doubt simplistic view is that, since the hitters actually deliver the goods that the expensive pitchers don't deliver, the smart thing--and I'm astounded I am writing this because I am one cheap bastard--just might be to go ahead and pay Raffie, JDM, and Bogey enough to keep them. As for the pitching, Bloom should continue to do what he has been doing: keep looking for bargains. Big bucks for great arms don't make sense to me even though I know there are some great starters who earn their huge paychecks.

Hmmm. If you reread that post, I think you will agree it cries out that the manager was at fault and pretty stupid. Bad lineup, bad decision on the bullpen. I, on the other hand, thought we saw vintage Ohtani--on the mound and at the plate--who made our absolute best hitter (Devers), lefty bat vs. righty pitcher, look like a rookie. So, no, I don't agree Story and Bogey would have murdered Ohtani last night. Yes, Sawamura did throw a fat pitch that cost the game. But you've ignored that he came in with 2 on and no one out and got two outs before that fat pitch. On top of that, you ignore that last night our starter was April Pivetta, Nick's kid sister, who was butchering the game but was saved by atrocious baserunning by the Angels. You also sound like someone who thinks that good managers should win 10 of 10 games on a West Coast trip and that losing any of those games is unacceptable.

Seven straight, including six straight on the West Coast. Not too shabby. Sawamura stunk, of course, but the bullpen has otherwise been pretty decent. So has the rotation even though April Pivetta was on the mound last night. Hitting, however, has faltered in this series.

Boy, have you read this wrong. All three Sox wins in this series were by 1 run and 2 of the wins were with 1-0 scores. Winning 3 of 4 approached the mildly miraculous. Plus last night Ohtani clearly had his good stuff--blazing fastball, nasty splitter, tough slider, etc--while going 7 innings. Meanwhile, Pivetta was so freaking lucky in the early innings it was ridiculous--like men on 1st and 2d who only advance one base on what should have a double and scored both of them, but the Angel on 2b couldn't make up his mind. Maybe he saw Angels in the outfield. If JBJ had been in RF, he would have been right and the ball would have been caught. But it was Cordero, the Sox primary defensive butcher.