Maxbialystock

Oh, come off it. Wacha went through their entire lineup 2+ times and gave up 1 run. Then Schreiber and Strahm went through their entire lineup once, giving up 2 BB's, no hits, and no runs. Davis and Houck butchered the 9th inning, giving up two doubles, a triple, an HBP, and 4 runs of a 5 run lead. Given the first 8 innings, no other assessment is reasonable. And what is this, "the game was on the line" stuff? They had a freaking 6-1 lead and just had to get three freaking outs. When Houck took the mound, it was a 6-2 lead with two men out, and you want to congratulate him for his brilliant, gutsy, fearless save? The good news is that Houck (and Davis) are still probably pretty good relievers who just had a bad night/game.

Here's some interesting stats on Houck, especially if you think he is the best closer available. In the month of June he has pitched in 6 games, pitched a total of 7.1 innings, registered 10 K's and just 1 BB, and given up 1 run for a June-to-date ERA of 1.23. The Sox won all 6 of those games. In May he pitched in 6 games, a total of 17 innings, and gave up 11 runs (7 in one game vs the Angels and 3 in another vs. the White Sox, and 1 in the other four games and 12 innings vs the Rangers, Mariners, White Sox, and Orioles). If you lop off those first two games, May 5 and May 8, Houck has now pitched in 10 straight games, from May 15 thru June 17, in which he has pitched 19.1 innings and given up 2 runs with 19 K's and 5 BB's. So it sure looks as though the case for House is a good one and that last night was just a bad night in which he still got the save. The caveat to the above is that in 9 of those 10 straight games Houck faced some pretty weak hitting teams: A's (2d worst team OPS in MLB) once; Mariners (8th worst) three times; Orioles (5th worst) once; Rangers (8th worst) once; Angels (10th worst) once; White Sox (9th best) once, and Reds (12th worst) once.

Come on. He came into the game with a freaking 6-2 lead and two men out. When he finally got the final out, the score was 6-5.

Agree with most. You are probably right that Whitlock started because Houck wouldn't get his covid shots and Sale was/is on the IL. Last year I thought Whitlock was terrific in relief, but he never closed (or almost never) even though Barnes bombed after being terrific, Ottavino closed a bunch of games but not all that well, and even Richards closed a couple of times. I do not think Cora is an idiot, so I have to assume he didn't think--and apparently still doesn't think--Whitlock's niche is as a closer. And, me, I trust Cora's judgment. In addition, I have this idee fixee on what a closer should be/do: fearless, great command, two really good pitches. And I'm not sure that's a good description of Whitlock. It did however, fit Barnes when his knuckle curve and fastball were working, Kojii Uehara with his slow fastball and nasty splitter, Kimbrel with his big knuckle curve and blazing fastball, and probably Papelbon. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure that Sale still only uses three pitches: fastball, slider, and changeup (when it's working). So great as he has been as a starter, and I think he was stupendous in his first two seasons in Boston, he just might be the best choice as closer. Anyway, right now it's Houck because he's earned the shot, despite stumbling tonight. I will be happy to congratulate you when and if Whitlock gets the job and proves he can do it well.

I just checked. Kimbrel pitched the 9th inning, of the last game of the 2018, a 10-2 win over the Yankees in which Porcello pitched 2 innings, Kelly 1, Poyner 1, ERod 1, Barnes 1, Brasier 1, Pomeranz 1, and Kimbrel 1. In his one inning, Kimbrel struck out all three Yankees hitters he faced, so I disagree with your assertion that Kimbrel was exhausted, barely able to walk to the mound, etc. That game was 30 Sep, and Kimbrel next pitched (closed, with a save after giving up a dinger) five days later against the same Yankees team.

Completely agree the closer has to be fearless--I said that up above--and that might be Houck. However, coolness doesn't work without great command and two really effective pitches. Houck now has 3 saves and in all three of them at least one batter hit the ball hard. Tonight he needed just one freaking out and instead gave up back to back hard hit doubles that cut the Sox lead from 6-2 to 6-5. I remain unconvinced that Houck is THE MAN, but for now think Cora should stick with him. Eight other Sox relievers have had save opportunities this season and none has shown he has the right stuff.

I'm mad at Houck, but not Cora. He gave Houck the closer job because nobody else had shown he could do the job--and lots of guys tried. Whitlock, Houck, Diekman, Davis, Brasier, Schreiber, Strahm, Robles, and Barnes have all had save opportunities this season (although I suspect not all were in the 9th inning). And Houck got saves his first two times out, so of course Cora would use him again. And being mad at Houck might be unfair because he is not an experienced closer. But he was the right choice because Davis sure wasn't getting the job done and Houck just got two saves.

I think he was telegraphing his pitches and finally got two clean saves when he stopped telegraphing. He pitched 62.1 innings in the 2018 regular season. Among the top closers, that wasn't a lot of innings. Also, I'm pretty sure he didn't pitch for the last 9 days of the regular season. He got a save on Sep 21, and his next game I think was Oct 5 against the Yankees. Maybe he was rusty, but gassed?

Cora had tried almost everyone else as a closer, so why not Houck? And if Houck repeats what he did tonight, maybe Cora will try Whitlock as closer. Where we differ is that I think Cora did the best he could with what he had for his pitching staff and you don't. I do agree that Whitlock is pretty close to the center of that disagreement because I think Cora was right to start out using him as a long reliever and then to move him into starting. And I say that because Whitlock seems to me to have the repertoire to get through a lineup 2 or 3 times, which relievers (and especially closers) never have to do. I also say there is little or no evidence that Whitlock would be a good closer, whereas you seem to think that's almost a certainty.

I didn't want anybody specific. I only cited Barnes and Robles as guys who were already on the team who had closed (successfully) before. But, after they tried to close, it was pretty obvious neither could do the job this season. I agree Whitlock was your first choice to close, but also believe you have been fine with House once he got those two saves. Here's what I think a good closer should be/have: someone with two really good pitches, preferably a fastball and a breaking ball, excellent control, and no fear. That was Uehara--but also Kimbrel, and, last year, briefly, Barnes. I think Papelbon too, except that I think he developed a third pitch. I think Whitlock and Houck have shown they can be good relievers and even starters, but I also think neither of them fits that description of what good closer should be/have. Of course, I could be wrong about what a good closer should have.

Sweet????????? He came in with 2 on and 2 out and gave up back to back doubles to get the score from 6-2 to 6-5 with men now on 2d and 3d before he finally got his first out, a K. It was an absolutely putrid save and evidence of why the "save" is a stupid stat.

True, he did for awhile, but then he switched to Houck. And, once Houck got those two saves, he said Houck should have been made closer way back in April.

Well, well. Houck gets his 3d magnificent save in less than a week. Old Red sure can pick 'em, and I bow to his superior insight into how to run a bullpen.

Even more annoying that Houck, the born to close ace, gives up back to back doubles when he's supposed to be putting the fire out. Old Red, take note. Score is now 6-5, and Houck only had to get one measly out.

I think the fielding by both teams has been good. I also think Wainwright has pitched better than Wacha, but Duran and especially Story really came through. Whoever claims that JDM and Bogey don't believe in driving in runs just might have a point.

Not much of an Arroyo fan. I think they keep Duran.

Good 5 innings by Wacha. One more should do it. No walks.

Terrific, smart single by Story to drive in two huge runs!!! I seriously didn't think he had it in him.

I hear you, but to me technique at 1b is somewhat overrated. Cordero has little technique, but he's been very effective on a bunch of plays. We complain when he doesn't catch throws in the dirt--which are always errors on the throwers--but don't complain when Vazquez fails to block wild pitches.

He sure is, and I now think his defense more than counterbalances his horrible hitting. I just wish he could bet 11th or 12th instead of 6th.

To be honest, I think Story has taken away two Cardinal hits, so he's been a positive asset in this game.

Agree--of course. But @ $22M/year, one expects some hitting.

I don't give a hoot about Cordero's technique at 1b. I do care about his hitting, and so far he has struck out once.

Agree.

The MLB app quotes Story as saying he will beat this slump, but first he needs to admit what the scarecrow admits in the Wizard of OZ: he doesn't have a brain. In 3 pitches, he gets two right down the middle which he ignores, and swings and misses at the second pitch, which is either out of the zone or close to it. Except for Duran's leadoff triple, the Sox lineup looks pathetic. Wacha has his work cut out for him.