Maxbialystock

Forget the past month and just look at the last 2 weeks--during which the Sox took 2 of 3 from the Cardinals (who were then leading the NL Central Division) and 3 of 3 from Cleveland, who were then leading the AL Central Division. About those bottom feeders. The very worst team in MLB, the A's, wins 1 out of every 3 games, but the Sox took 5 of 6. Detroit wins 4 of 10, but the Sox swept 3 of 3. The Angels win 5 of 10 (46.8%), and the Sox took 3 of 4. Seattle, almost as good at 46.1%, lost 2 of 3 to the Sox. What I will agree with is that the Sox so far have struggled against all four of the other AL East Division teams. Not just the Yankees, Rays, and Jays, but also the Orioles, who have taken 4 of 7 games so far. And, as you imply, this could well doom the Sox, but I'm not yet ready to go there. As for the Jays, let's not forget that playing in Toronto has removed our newly crowned closer, Houck, who has the Sox 5 most recent saves. Plus Duran, for whatever that's worth. And Sale, if he ever returns. Indeed, this morning I read a comment that it's quite possible the Sox could play the Jays in the postseason at Toronto--without Houck, Sale, Duran, whoever.

Reread what you wrote. You call it a treatment that doesn't keep you from getting COVID or from spreading it. And don't forget you are defending someone who believes COVID vaccinations are bad for you. What other conclusion is possible besides "they don't help much?" So let me ask this simple question. Do you believe COVID vaccinations save lives--yes or no?

Astutely argued. One wonders why we spent billions and billions of dollars developing and testing those shots, manufacturing them, and going all out to administer them to as many people as possible--when they don't really help much. This goes way beyond any ponzi scheme because every freaking government in the world is in on this malicious scam. And, I suppose, Dr Fauci, who got the ball rolling in January 2020 to develop a vaccination in record time, was just another medical charlatan, full of sound and fury, but signifying nothing.

Absolutely true. Nothing dumber than wanting people to get vaccinated against COVID. In fact, enlightened people now realize that all vaccinations aren't just dumb, they are dangerous and should be avoided.

A second game thread. Neat. Entirely agree it was a very exciting game, but with a not so good finish.

I could go either way on this, but am inclined to agree with Hill staying as a starter. Whitlock has good potential as a starter, but we know he can be terrific in the bullpen. I think Whitlock, Schreiber, and Houck could handle almost all of the 8th and 9th inning stuff in close games. Alternatively, Whitlock has been very good as a long reliever.

I think he did because he was really good. He had one save in two save opportunities, which does not suggest he was prime closer material. He did have 14 holds and, unusual for a reliever, he pitched 73 innings in 46 games. Last year Houck started 13 games and only pitched 69 innings. Ottavino pitched 62 innings in 69 games, which is more typical of a reliever than Whitlock's 73 innings in 46 games. Thus my assumption that even last year they were thinking Whitlock had starter potential because he has such a good repertoire. I'm certainly no expert, but I think the best relievers normally rely on just two very good pitches that complement each other.

Whitlock has pitched 49 innings, Houck 47, so I guess Houck's arm is about to fall off.

See above. Relievers go on the IL as often as starters. So, not only are you relying on a hypothetical, but a flimsy one at that. Plus you are ignoring that Cora needed a starter and that Whitlock is well suited to be a starter. To become a closer, it is customary to go through a process similar to what Schreiber has been doing. Indeed, Schreiber has demonstrated far more potential to close than has Whitlock and in fact pitched tonight.

"May" won't wash. Relievers go on the IL at least as often as starters. Whitlock has the repertoire to start, and Cora badly needed a starter with Sale out. Whitlock never closed last year. Schreiber this year has demonstrated he is far more suited to close than Whitlock and in fact pitched tonight. Houck is also a better choice and in fact has the Sox last five saves, but has opted not to play in Toronto for his own selfish reasons--which you no doubt also blame on Cora.

Whitlock is on the IL. Why are you insisting he should have been called upon tonight?

Of course they have. But usually, they work their way toward closing by relieving in middle than later innings. Someone else said that's what Schreiber has been doing, and I think he is far better prepared to close than Whitlock. Indeed, he did pitch a decent 7th tonight. Before you say, "gotcha, Schreiber should have close," allow me to remind you that the Sox bullpen tonight needed to pitch four scoreless innings to get the win/save. Cora simply ran out of good relievers, which would not have happened if freaking Houck had been vaccinated. Also, why are we talking about a potential closer who wasn't used tonight, not because Cora is clueless, but because Whitlock is on the IL???!!!

What argument? I mistook TylerD for D-Money, and I was still half right. As for Cora on Danish, I don't doubt that was a hard sale. He gave up the hard single and the walk. Then Robles gave up two singles, and the Jays scored 2 runs in the 9th without making an out. One weak excuse for Robles is that both singles were grounders away from the shifts, which the Jays did a lot of tonight and the Sox not so much. Funny thing you are all over Cora, who had to replace his leadoff hitter and closer--neither of whom made it to Toronto. He replaced Duran with Refsnyder, but couldn't replace Houck who, guess what, has all five of the Sox most recent saves!! On the other hand, he did stay with Wacha through five innings and 90 pitches, did bring in Brasier, Schreiber, and Danish who each pitched a scoreless inning in relief, and did have Refsnyder at the right place in the lineup, good for 2 hits and 3 rbi's. So, if his big mistake was not using a guy who was on the freaking IL--an argument someone else (not you) made, I'd say he did OK.

One more time. Whitlock became a starter because Cora badly needed one and because Whitlock has an excellent repertoire, good enough to be a starter. But why are we arguing about this when he is on the freaking IL and couldn't possibly have been in the bullpen tonight? Oh, and if he weren't on the IL, do you think maybe he would have been useful starting last night instead of freaking Seabold? I thought Whitlock had an amazing season last year, a brilliant move by Bloom to use Rule 5 to get him from the Yankees. But guess what? He never closed by coming into the 9th with 3 run or less lead. Not once. So it is inarguable that he has no experience as a closer. Houck has the experience and ain't half bad, but he's not freaking in Toronto because he doesn't want to be vaccinated for covid.

I agree, but was also half right. The Jay are 7-2 vs. the Sox to date.

Easy. We over-reacted--and confused you with D-money-- in part because we are still thinking about how the game was lost. As for 8-2 vs 7-2 with regards to the Jays dominance of the Sox this season, feel free to check your facts. I did before I posted 7-2.

Big mistake by me. I confused you with D-Money on the Houck vaccination. Sorry.

Whitlock has never been a closer, so there is no evidence he would be good at it. This is just his second season at the MLB level. Last year he relieved and especially long relieved very well, but was not the closer. This year he's been mostly a starter because of the absence of Sale, etc. Schreiber this year has demonstrated he's really good coming from the bullpen, and would be a much better choice. Houck has shown he's not a bad choice as closer.

That's two things you've been dead wrong on. The other was not knowing Houck isn't vaccinated and can't play in Toronto, which has been discussed endlessly on talksox. Do you ever check your information before posting?

Nope. We played a 3 game series, then a 4 game series, and now 2 of a 3 game series. 7-2.

I'm not saying Cora screwed this up. But I'm not defending him, either. He sent two guys out in the 9th, and they were both completely worthless.

Hmmmmmm. Thanks, Mr. Houck.

Robles also looks scared shitless.

Danish, who just pitched a decent 8th, looks scared shitless. Robles is like adding fuel to the fire. So I'm not sure Cora planned this right. Unless of course, he wants to show Houck up.

Jays going with a 4 man outfield vs. Devers. And it worked like a charm. No hit for Devers.