Maxbialystock

I said 2d worst in the AL, not MLB. But I do agree with your comments on Fenway being a hitters park. Plus I think the Sox outfield defense--and at 1b--has made it tougher on the Sox pitching this year.

I'm sure you're right. I just wanted to make the point that he has been terrific and much needed--and that relievers can in fact come back. To a far lesser degree, something like that can be said about Brasier. Last night he stunk and almost cost the game, but overall in August he as been solid in 9 of 12 appearances during which he gave up 0 earned runs.

Good discussion on aces. I will offer a different rationale for calling anyone an ace--his freaking salary. Therefore Sale is our ace beyond question. Having read some good comments above, I am inclined to agree "ace" doesn't have much meaning these days because a real ace should be a stopper. Think Sandy Koufax or Pedro Martinez or Tom Seaver. The problem is that few teams really have that kind of starter these days. The Yankees, for example, are paying Gerrit Cole $36M/year. Unlike Chris Sale, he's healthy, and last year he was their guy in the wild card game--and got beat, lasting just 2 innings and giving up 3 runs on 7 days rest.

Glad you said that. It gives me an excuse to make a point. Talksoxers know I am hard over on those big contracts for top players, which I continue to believe are gambles that usually do not pay off. I'm a cheapskate. On the other hand, I've often thought Mookie Betts and Willie Mays are a lot alike. When Willie was inducted into the HOF, he said something like, "I have to be honest, I never saw anyone better." I agree with that--he's my fav even though Mike Trout has had an absolutely spectacular career so far. Mookie and Willie are roughly the same size--Mookie 5'9", Willie 5'10", but Mookie 10 lbs heavier at 180 to Willie's 170. Small guys with terrific coordination and arm strength to throw and swings to hit dingers and legs to steal bases. 5 tool guys with a whole lot of cumulative WAR. Willie came up in 1951 at age 20 and played through the 1973 season--and missed most of 1952 and all of 1953 because of service in the Army. His cumulative WAR was 156 for 23 seasons, which is about 7 per. In 1971 at age 40 his WAR was 6.3. And for all of that incredible career and reaching icon status, Willie Mays cumulative freaking salary was $1.8M. That's a big reason why he kept playing--his biggest salaries were at the tail end of his career. The dollar went a lot further then, but let's not kid ourselves. Curt Flood was right to break the reserve clause, and Willie Mays is a prime example why. After he retired, he was more than willing to be a greeter or whatever because he needed the money. So, while I am against the exorbitant salaries I read about today, I do understand that the owners of the past--and most notably the owner of the Chicago Black Sox--believed players should live in penury. I seem to recall that while he was the starting right fielder for the Brooklyn Dodgers--when they were good--Carl Furillo had an offseason job in construction to make ends meet. In 1960 when he was 38, the Dodgers dumped him to avoid paying a pension due a 15 year player, so he sued them and won.

He definitely sticks to his points. I knew nothing about Kike before last season although I have looked at his numbers before he got here. Like everyone else, I watched the games and liked what I saw although I did agree with moonslav it was regrettable how often Kike was pulled back to the infield when he was clearly--his DWAR last year was +2.1--the best outfielder defender on the team. Plus his overall WAR was 4.9. I doubt that Old Red is aware that Kike's 4.9 was a tad better than Mookie's 4.2 with the Dodgers last year. Or that with Kike the Sox got to the ALCS, just as with Mookie the Dodgers got to the NLCS. I am of course aware that Mookie overall is way, way better than Kike and has the past WAR's to prove it. This season, for example, Mookie is way ahead with a 5.4 WAR to Kike's 0.2. Unfortunately for the Dodgers, however, it's possible they are shelling out $365M for a player they may never see despite all the hoopla every time he catches a fly, makes a good throw, gets a hit or better still a dinger, etc. In 5.3 seasons (@ $6M/season) with the Sox Mookie's cumulative WAR was 42.3. In parts of 3 seasons with the Dodgers (@ $30M/season for 12 years) it's 13.2.

I know zippo about McGuire--except that I like what I've seen so far. I like jacksoniamarch's comments about his good hands because that's what I think I've seen.

Amen.

About the WAR of 4.9. Kike's DWAR last year was 2.1, highest on the team. We would all prefer a great hitting centerfielder, but, when you don't have one, a good fielding CF is a good second choice.

Forget the hot streak. His WAR for last season was 4.9 with 20 dingers and an OPS of .786. His career OPS is 735. He's an excellent centerfielder and not too shabby in the infield. I see him as an everyday player for the Sox if only because no one else comes close to him in centerfield and certainly not Duran. Kike is 31, which is a consideration.

And that's the freaking point. Brasier absolutely stunk tonight, no question. In 12 games this month he stunk three times, including tonight, but in the other 9 games he gave up 0 earned runs in 9 innings. He has a terrible WAR (-.9 or worse) and ERA (over 7), but the Sox bullpen right now is pretty desperate. Thus Barnes pitching his third straight game tonight. Whitlock last game was Wednesday, but that was 2 innings and 24 pitches. And before that Saturday for another 2 innings and 25 pitches. Schreiber had the night off, but he pitched Wed and Thurs. Schreiber has already pitched more innings this season than in his previous three seasons combined. I left out Sawamura whose WAR is a respectable +0.8 and his ERA in August is 2.08. Strahm's WAR is +0.2 and this month is ERA is around 3.70 in 4 appearances. Let's also not forget that the team ERA is 14th of 15 AL teams.

Pollyanna here. This is the third straight terrific game I've watched. Yes, absolutely, the Sox lost the first two because in the end the Jays could bring that run home from 2d in the 10th and the Sox flat could not. Last night the Jays did it with two freaking groundouts (except the 2d one was fielder's choice and the batter was safe at first when Bogey went home with a high throw. So my point is that I do not see what everyone else is seeing--a bunch of quitters. Brasier stunk tonight of course, but he was trying and just didn't have it. Meanwhile we are learning that Barnes was only mostly dead, and to the Sox credit they put him on the IL forever--or at least long enough to seem to regain the heart of what made him so good last year--a good knuckle curve and good enough fast ball. In 10 freaking appearances this month he has given up 2 runs with an ERA of 1.93. Tonight was his third game in 3 nights and third straight shutout inning in very close games. How could anyone not applaud not only his performance but--heaven forbid I say this--his freaking heart. He gets paid $8M whether he's good or stinks to high heaven. He wants to contribute. And, I think, so does everyone else on this team, as unpopular as that is on talksox. I have always wondered how MLB players can maintain desire/intensity/skill/whatever over 162 games, 6 games a week for 6 months, in games that sometimes seem interminable with the petty little game delays by pitchers, hitters, whatever. And in the Sox case they are doing it during a rough season immediately after a pretty good one. I'm a Sox fan forever, but more than that I'm a baseball fan grateful that his team is still in the John Henry era.

Meh. I agree Whitlock and Schreiber have been vastly better, but right now Barnes and Brasier are needed. Brasier gave up 5 in the the 15-10 debacle and 2 more vs. the Braves, but in 9 other stints in August has given up no earned runs. Barnes ERA for August is 2.16. That's why both pitched last night in a game the Sox could have won--and didn't lose until the Jays scored in the 10th.

You are ace of the spoiled brats. JDM and Bogaerts are absolutely not brain dead. Both were key to the 2018 108 wins and then a World Series--plus Bogey played 3b in the 2013 WS win. This is Bogey's best defensive season--as measured by his DWAR--ever. But both are in slumps, and JDM has simply had a terrible season. You want brain dead, look at Vazquez's baserunning this year and last. Also the defensive lapses in the outfield this season--and at 1b. The defense has almost certainly hurt the pitching--despite pretty good play by Bogey and Story (and sometimes Devers)--but the real problem this year is the injuries to the rotation and the bullpen. Because of those injuries, the Sox ERA of 4.47 is 14th of 15 teams in the AL.

Not Crawford's night. But the problem is that Barnes, Whitlock, Schreiber and Brasier all pitched last night.

Especially when the rotation took to drinking beer in the locker room during games--but usually not the guy who was actually starting that night. He kind of had to stay in the dugout. The September collapse and the beer cost Francona his job. He deserved it, but he also learned from it (and has said so) and has continued to be an excellent manager with the Guardians.

You guys are so freaking spoiled you don't even realize that by citing those 4 specific years you have very obviously skipped over World Series wins in 2013 and 2018--to say nothing getting the the ALCS in 2021.

Excellent rally to tie it at 2. No complaint on Moore going 1b to3b on the single—a perfect throw best him.

Apropos of nothing, I just checked these three OPS's for August: Devers is high with .603, the Bogey with .577, then JDM at .560

Superb game even though the Sox lost at a time when they really can't afford to. Bello was dazzling compared to his other starts and show a good fastball, slider, and especially changeup--in addition to good command. The lineup was missing some guys plus the RISP disease continues to limit the Sox scoring. No errors, no dumb baserunning. Even Brasier recovered after that leadoff double in the 10th and didn't allow another run--and the one that was scored was unearned. Barnes and Whitlock and Schreiber held the Jays scoreless for 4 innings.

You spout all this nonsense because you're on the internet.

Good insight. Plus, let's face it, it's fun grading a GM's dives--his player acquisitions/trades--before and after the fact. I've never played fantasy baseball, but my brother loved to. You do too--love to grade trades and acquisitions. And on top of that is the basic fan complaint of "what have you done for me lately." I thought 2021 was a pretty darn good season, but to the boo birds it's ancient history or never happened or, best of all, was just blind stupid luck.

Meh. I take the long view and recognize that the Yankees with their 27 World Series titles are a terrific and very worthy rival. I don't hate the Yankees and rarely have run into a Yankees fan in person I couldn't get along with, if only because I usually know a lot about the Yankees. JDavis76 just likes being obnoxious on a Red Sox thread. In his eyes, he's being heroic.

Right. Wacha was/is a huge mistake because he isn't injury-proof. That he has the highest WAR--"wins above replacement"--on the pitching staff means nothing. And I just love how you brand Bloom as the ignorant, useless, just plan dumb procurer of pitchers when this team this year is shelling out $ 63M for Price, Sale, and Eovaldi--none of whom are currently pitching for the Sox (nor will Price or Sale the rest of this season-- and whose total contribution to the 2022 Sox is combined WAR of +0.9. All of them were hired by DD, not Chaim Bloom.

2020 was a non-season because of COVID. 2021 was a successful season when the Sox beat the Yankees in the wild card, whipped the 100 win Rays 3 games to 1 in the ALDS, and got to the ALCS before going down to the Astros, 4 games to 2. You carping critics love to pretend 2021 never happened. The story of 2022 is a decimated pitching staff, especially the rotation: Sale, Wacha, Eovaldi, Hill, Whitlock, Houck, Bello, and Seabold--all starters this year--have all been on the IL this year, and Sale, Eovaldi, Houck, Bello, and Seabold are on it now. Sale and Eovaldi, both high-cost acquisitions/starters courtesy of DD, contributed a combined WAR of 1.0 this year. Eovaldi is back on the IL and Sale was barely off it and will finish the season on it. Paxton has never left the IL. And you better believe that it was John Henry not Bloom who made the decision not to retain Mookie for $365M for 12 years. I'm not saying every deal Bloom has made has worked, but the simple fact is that the pitching staff has killed the Sox this year largely because of injuries.

Agree on both. Of course.