Maxbialystock

I guess you mean me (among others). Here's another version of why I defend Bloom-- 1. His stewardship of the Rays, who still are the best franchise in MLB at finding and developing skilled players who can win in the toughest division in MLB while spending the lowest amount per win. He was an innovator. 2. His system--the one he developed over a period of 11 years. In 2008 he took over all aspects of the Rays' minor league systems, including player evaluation and assignments, expansions of video, strength and conditioning, mental skill initiatives. Chaim Bloom wrote the "Ray's Way" player development manual. I would be remiss if I didn't point out that in 2008 the Rays went to the World Series, so it's clear Chaim Bloom wasn't the only architect of their success. 3. The fact that the Rays have been especially good at developing good pitching, the exact thing the Sox have been horrible at. 4. The challenge of trying to bridge the immense gap between the Sox way of doing things and the "Ray's Way." For example, DD was hugely successful in creating the 2018 Sox juggernaut (the best Sox team ever) because he basically could buy the missing pieces, which pretty much was the pitching staff, so he went out and bought Price, Sale, Porcello, and Kimbrel. I think John Henry hired Bloom because he wanted a better system for developing players vs. buying them. He has already demonstrated a reluctance to re-sign Manny Ramirez, Jon Lester, Mookie Betts, maybe Bogey and Devers, and probably some others I've forgotten. 5. Most of the criticism of Bloom is on specific acquisitions (and non-retentions), which I regard as missing the point even though I myself didn't like losing Renfroe and Schwarber and Iglesias from last year's team, didn't like bringing JBJ back, didn't like how the Barnes caper turned out, etc. 6. The view that DD, all by himself and after inheriting a team that had absolutely no talent, singlehandedly assembled the greatest Sox team ever--most of which is bs. He did fix the pitching simply by spending megabucks for it. However, that exact same team won 22 fewer games the very next year and was even worse in 2020, not because Chaim Bloom took over, but because DD's stewardship had been so lousy. 7. Bloom's first real season, 2021, was a huge success, despite the truncated Sale season (and his lousy performance in the postseason) and the departures of Kimbrel, Price, and Betts. Unlike DD's first two seasons, 2016 and 2017, the 2021 Sox knew how to win in the postseason--although I hasten to add that, while Bloom did a good job putting it together, DD was the guy who hired Alex Cora. 8. I agree this year has been a mess. I think it's because of all of the injuries, but there is also the question of whether the system that Bloom developed so brilliantly for the Rays will work for the Sox--or whether Bloom can create a hybrid of the two systems. The other unknown is how much is John Henry willing to spend on players like Bogey and Devers.

To be honest, I would have been happy with that. Renfroe had 16 freaking outfield assists last year--what an arm!!--but he also had 12 freaking errors. So his DWAR was -0.5. But the sucker can hit.

Thanks for saying that.

Meh. John Henry is far and away the best owner the Sox have ever had, so he had to be doing something right on hiring and firing. About the managers. Grady Little should have been fired. No one disputes that today. Francona wasn't fired. His contract was not renewed after the 2011 season because the Sox completely disintegrated in September at the same time it was discovered that some of the starters were drinking beer in the clubhouse during games. While I understand why that happened, it's now obvious that replacing Francona with Bobby Valentine was ill-advised. Then came Farrell, who won the WS in his first season, 2013, but thereafter the Sox didn't look so hot, especially in the 2016 and 2017 postseasons. I give DD lots of credit for firing Farrell and hiring Alex Cora, who looks pretty good so far. As for GM's, Epstein left for a sweetheart offer from the Cubs. Cherington may have been OK overall--many here have said so--but signing Sandoval and HanRam rankled--as did not keeping Lester. DD did what he was hired to do--spent like a drunken sailor to fix the pitching, which resulted in the best season the Sox ever had. But I think JH decided that he preferred a different approach, and it is absolutely unarguable that the best system in MLB for finding and developing good (but not expensive) talent that can compete in the toughest division in MLB belongs to the Rays. No other team comes close in terms of salary cost per wins. Chaim Bloom was either the architect of that system or one of them. It remains to be seen whether Chaim can adapt what he knows best to the very different situation of the Sox.

Interesting. I always thought that all major leaguers, even the best ones, came from the minor leagues. I also thought that the pursuit and accumulation of prospects was driven not only by a search for talent, but inexpensive talent at that. We all remember DD's trades/purchases for prime pitching that made the 2018 wonder-season possible. The Sox team payroll was the highest in MLB that season. But we should also remember that Betts, Beni, Bogey, JBJ, Holt--5 of the 6 highest lineup WAR's for the 2018 Sox--had not yet reached free agency. I left out Devers, who played in 121 games, hit 21 dingers (3d most on the Sox), drove in 66 runs (4th most), etc because his combined WAR, including his weak defense, was just 0.0. That Sox team lead MLB in runs scored with 876 (2d best was 818), and OPS with .792 (2d best was .766)--a juggernaut that relied very heavily on players who were not simply bought from other teams once they'd reached free agency. The stars of the Sox 2018 pitching staff, on the other hand, was basically bought by DD: Sale (WAR 6.9), Price (WAR 4.4), Porcello (WAR 3.1), and Kimbrel (WAR 2.3). Here we are in 2022 and we're still paying for Sale ($30M) and Price ($16M) who this year have contributed a combined WAR of +0.1 to the Sox campaign.

It was a great little run, but I entirely agree the way ahead is fraught with peril-- --The team ERA is ranked 14th in the AL, plus Wacha and Sale are still on the IL, the bad Hill showed up last night, inconsistent Pivetta is back. Thanks to Whitlock, Houck, and Schreiber, I am less worried about the bullpen than I was. --The hitting is soft, inconsistent--despite having scored the 3d most runs in the AL and having the 5th best team OPS. --The baserunning has been lousy--an accumulation of dumb moves has led to an overabundance of cautions (which, however, is somewhat justified by a lack of team speed and not having the ability to sense/know when to gamble and when not). --The outfield defense leaves much to be desired. Story is definitely missed at 2d base.

Story leads the Sox in rbi's and is 2d in dingers (with 15), so he must be doing something right. And he's the best defender on the team by a big margin. His overall WAR of +2.1 is 3d best among position players despite playing 20 games fewer than Bogey, 8 games fewer than JDM and Devers, 18 games fewer than Verdugo, etc. The Sox record with Story in the lineup is 44-37. Without him it's 7-14. So, frankly, I don't care how he holds his freaking bat. I think his biggest problem is facing a slew of pitchers he's never faced before.

We differ on Vaz, whom I haven't liked this year. But I agree it's OK for people to have different views. Like you, I would not have minded losing JDM, but maybe nothing much was offered for him. As it is, he conceivably could help the Sox the rest of the way and then seek greener pastures. Or even stay put for less money. I don't consider Hosmer to be a big deal and am astounded this thread is now at 11 pages. As for the larger view of waiting before condemning Bloom's moves, not many talksoxers can do that. And that's just the nature of opinion boards. We prefer to react right now, especially if we don't like something. I have done exactly that too many times to count.

I think there's more to it. One is of course this season. Another could be not much was offered for the "big boys." Another could be the Sox can make better decisions and deals for next year in the postseason.

When Story struggled early on (his OPS is still only .713), I figured two things. First, he was seeing a whole lot of pitchers for the first time. Second, the thin air in Denver is advantageous to hitters and disadvantageous to pitchers. Now all his games are near sea level.

Indeed. The 2016 Sox, whose lineup all arrived in Boston before DD, led MLB in runs scored and team OPS. They were an offensive powerhouse and a veritable gift to the new GM, who only had to focus on the pitching staff, which was lousy in 2015 (24th best ERA in MLB). He did that quickly with money and trades. Later, he brought in JDM, who made the whole Sox lineup better in 2018. And he replaced Farrell with Cora.

The "mess" is still here because it was/is unfixable. The Sox are paying Price, Sale, and Eovaldi $63M to deliver a combined WAR of +0.9. That $63M is owed money and can't be used to "lock up" Bogey and Devers. On top of that, as I have also repeated ad nauseum, Bogey's likely asking price to stay is $250M and Devers $500. I base those absurd numbers of the fact that 23 year old Juan Soto was insulted by the Nats offer of $440M.

The case for Bloom-- 1. He's not only very smart, he basically wrote the book for the Rays who year after year are competitive in the toughest division in MLB--despite a salary base (driven by having a small fan base in Tampa Bay) in the bottom third of MLB teams. 2. His predecessor DD was hugely successful mostly because he convinced JH to shell out big bucks for talent and to allow DD to give up prospects as well. 2018 was probably the Sox best season ever and mostly the creation of DD. However, by 2019 the wheels were coming off, and JH fired him and brought in Chaim Bloom, knowing that Bloom's approach would be very different. 3. Specifically, Bloom would be a lot more cost-conscious than DD and would likely try to build the farm system vs. trade prospects for known talent. At the same time, however, this team does have a terrific fan base and can afford to spend bucks for talent. Plus, as this thread shows, the Sox fan base can be impatient. 4. If we dispense with 2020 as a nonseason because of the pandemic and vastly shortened season, Bloom's first real season was 2021, which turned out really well despite the departures of Mookie and David Price--both of whom went to the Dodgers--and Chris Sale's truncated season (9 games) recovering from TJ surgery. They won 92 games, beat the Yankees ace in the wild card game, beat the 100 win (most in the AL) Rays in the ALDS, and finally lost 4 games to 2 to the Astros. Worth noting: the Sox had no closer in the 2021 postseason, and no saves. The one "blown save" occurred in a 6th inning. Bloom acquisitions Kike Hernandez, Verdugo, Renfroe, Arroyo, Schwarber, Iglesias, Whitlock, Pivetta, and Ottavino definitely helped. 5. The 2022 season has definitely been a disappointment--thus the clamor to get rid of the bum in the front office. Good GM's simply don't let this happen. However, I think the boobirds are ignoring some daunting realities-- a. By far the most important has been how the rotation was decimated by injuries to Sale, Eovaldi, Whitlock, Wacha, and Hill. How big was this? The Sox team ERA is now 4.25 and ranked 14th out of 15 AL teams--far and away the worst in the John Henry era. And no one on this thread has mentioned that fact. We complain about the bullpen and how Bloom should have fixed it, but ignore that no bullpen can be expected to "save" games in which the starters bombed. On the contrary, what we can expect is that the bullpen will be damaged by having to pitch 2/3 of innings instead of 1/3 of them. b. So was the lineup by injuries to Devers (just 12 games) and Story (now likely to miss July, and August), two of the top three lineup players (the third is Bogey) on the Sox this year. Kike was terrific last year and has missed most of this year. Verdugo was excellent last year and has stunk this year (so some blame accrues to Bloom for acquiring him). Dalbec's OPS was .792 last year and is .647 this year, plus he has yet to master 1b in the field (but looks good lately). c. Bloom's flexibility to fix shortfalls at 1B, in the outfield, and on the pitching staff has been limited by the fact that the budget is already the 6th highest in MLB and includes shelling out $63M for three DD acquisitions (Sale, Price, and Eovaldi) whose combined WAR for the season is a paltry +0.9. Contrast that grim reality with all the griping about paying Story $20M for his so far WAR of +2.1. And I think we can expect Story's hitting to improve. d. Chaim and JH are no doubt still trying to decide how much they want to spend to keep Bogey (who probably wants $250M) and Devers ($500M). Bogey can leave after this season and Devers next season. Both are fan favorites and have played well for the Sox. Bogey had just turned 21 when he had an OPS of .893 in the 2013 postseason (at 3d base). Devers, also at age 21, started all 11 games in the 2018 postseason with an OPS of .734 plus 9 rbi's (4th most on the team). Again, I think I'm the only one who recognizes how difficult these two retention issues are and how they affect other moves Bloom might want to make. e. Story. His WAR for 1/2 of a season (81 games) is +2.1 despite not hitting (OPS .713) as well as he did (OPS .850) for the Rockies. I think he was a good acquisition, even at $20M/year. The Sox were 44-37 with him and 6-12 without. 6. Despite all the stuff in 5 above, this Sox team is 1 game over .500 and 2 games from a wild card slot. Last year they were also a wild card team and did well in the postseason. 7. Given paras 1-6 above, I frankly do not understand the clamor to dump Bloom and hire someone else. Yes, absolutely, we can gripe about guys we wanted and he didn't get and/or guys he got whom we hate, but the bottom line is that we as fans still have a team to root for as we did last year even though we know that Chaim Bloom, with JH support, is just beginning the process of putting the Sox on a better path than the one DD set (which did, however, produce that fantastic 2018 season and a pretty good 2017 season) which was not sustainable.

You don't "take shots." But I did and should have been called out.

This isn't the post, but somewhere else on this thread you quoted my "hey, dummy" to Old Red. You were right to call me out. Someone else did too. Talksox should tolerate all kinds of disagreement, but not name-calling.

About your three specifics-- 1. The legitimate first baseman was what was available, not the result of deliberate manhunt conducted by Bloom. Coming into this season, he thought he had a good tandem in lefty bat Shaw (who was awful this year but good last year) and righty bat Dalbec (whose OPS last year was .792 in 417 at bats, but has been .647 this year). 2. Three good relievers for the 7-9 innings is better than last year's team had. Plus, as I said elsewhere, every GM whose team has a shot at a wild card was looking for "a legitimate bullpen arm or two or three" at the trade deadline. So those guys weren't going to go cheaply. 3. So far the Sox are 2-0 without Vazquez. The pitching has been superb without him. Vazquez finally started hitting again the last month or so, but overall this season he has been a disaster on the basepaths, not much better throwing out stealers, and not that good at working with the pitchers on the mound.

Meh. First and foremost, you need a freaking lead or at least a 1 run game to want to "shut things down" in the 7-9 innings. Given the struggles of both the rotation and the line up over the last few weeks, that hasn't happened very often. Second, for the first time in a long time, Cora right now has three really good late inning guys--Schreiber, Whitlock, and Houck--two of whom (Houck and Whitlock) can go 2 innings if needed. Third, I'm pretty sure the market for good relievers was red hot--by which I mean expensive--on August 1/2 because everybody but everybody with any hope of the playoffs wanted to buttress their bullpen. Fourth, the Sox just won three straight while having to depend on the bullpen to go 4 scoreless innings vs. the Brewers, 2 vs. the Astros, and 3 vs. the Astros.

Hey, dummy. 2018 and 2019 belonged to DD, not Bloom. 2020 was a nonseason. 2021 was a surprisingly good season despite the departure of Mookie, the absence of highly paid starter Price, the weak season of highly paid starter Sale, the lack of a closer in the postseason (which had absolutely zero impact on game outcomes), etc. As for 2022, the Sox pitching staff was hit with a tsunami of injuries followed by injuries to two--Devers and Story--of the Sox three best lineup players this year. Plus Kike. What has become clear from your commentary is that you must have been a huge DD fan because his approach was so simple: spend like a drunken sailor and/or trade away your farm system because the future is now--and never later. Bloom has the unenviable task of paying for DD's extravagance--specifically, shelling out $63M this year for Price, Sale, and Eovaldi whose combined WAR is a paltry 0.9. By himself, Bloom-acquisition Wacha has a WAR of +2.2. Schreiber's is 2.1--another Bloom acquisition. Pivetta's is 2.0--still another Bloom acquisition. Whitlock's is 1.5--yep, another Bloom guy.

More than enough, actually. Duran's WAR is 0.0, which suggests he has not hurt the Sox. I too thought losing that ball in the lights was egregious, especially when he made no attempt to go after the ball once he saw it. But the reality of that mistake is that the Sox had no chance in that game anyway, so it was the perfect game and time to do it. It was painful, but also serendipitous. Last, night, on the other hand, was all Duran, at least on offense. He won the game against the 2d best team in the AL--at their ballpark--and he did it during a period when the Sox have struggled mightily.

Arroyo played errorless ball at SS and got a hit, but of course that's irrelevant--so too the Sox winning their 3d straight game. You insist Cora is stupid, so of course he must be.

Two straight nights the Astros have swung aggressively at first pitch fastballs and gotten hits. Tonight it was the first pitch to Altuve, but the first fastball to Gurriel was on the 3d pitch--hit for a single. A double followed by a single for a 1-0 lead after the top of the Sox order all struck out. Interestingly, the Astros threw five straight fastballs to Devers-- three for strikes, all of them swung on, but Raffie swung and missed at the last two.

You don't know what you're talking about. For starters, Bloom/JH are paying $63M for three players--Price, Sale, and Eovaldi, all obtained by DD--whose combined contribution to this year's Sox is a WAR of +0.9. Three other starters--Wacha, Hill, and Whitlock (now in the bullpen)--have also been on the IL, as have two (Devers and Story) of the three most valuable (in terms in WAR) lineup players. Plus Kike, he made a huge difference in the OF last year but has barely played this year. You also seem to think offering Bogey $250M and Devers $500M is a good idea--or, barring that, you would have traded them by now. It's not that simple. And right now I'm happy to still have them on the team even though keeping them will be difficult. As for your guy Vazquez, the Sox were 39-43 in the 82 games in which he played. Last night was the first game of the the post-Vazquez era, and it was a great win, featuring superb pitching by Eovaldi, Schreiber, and Houck, who combined for 0 earned runs in 9 innings.

For at least two weeks now I have whined as much as anyone about this Sox team--poor defense, poor baserunning, untimely hitting, lousy pitching, you name it. So, yes, you can can make a case that Bloom is at fault and maybe should be fired. Nevertheless, consider the following-- 1. We don't know what JH's guidance is, but can be pretty sure it's not to spend a lot of money for quick fixes. As I've said countless times, the Sox are currently paying Sale, Price, and Eovaldi--all hired by DD--$63M this season, for which they have contributed a grand total of +.9 in WAR. 2. The Sox have been hit especially hard by injuries this year, especially the rotation of Sale, Eovaldi, Wacha, Hill, and Whitlock (now back in the bullpen). But I think Kike's absence has also been felt because last year the outfield overall was a combined plus in WAR and this year it's minus. Also, more recently, Devers and Story, whose WAR's even now are 4.3 and 2.1, the 1st and 3d best among the lineup players. 3. Despite the above, the Sox are at .500 and definitely in the hunt for a wild card. And they play in the AL East, which has by far the best W-L record in MLB, which means the Sox play 4 X 19 = 76 games against teams which all (including the Orioles) have winning records. 4. And the little matter of the 2021 season, Bloom's first full season after taking over as GM. That team lacked the glorious boys of summer that made 2018 so spectacularly good--Mookie (WAR 10.9), Price, Sale (when he was good), Porcello, Kimbrel, JDM in his best season ever (OPS 1.031), et al. Nevertheless, last year's team won 92 games, beat the Yankees and their ace in the wild card game, beat the Rays (100 wins, most in the AL) in the ALDS, 4 games to 2, and finally lost, 4 games to 2, to the Astros.

I have whined a lot about the defense this season, but in this case I think those errors by Arroyo and Bogey, even though they resulted in two unearned runs which could have cost the game, were the kind that can happen to good fielders. Arroyo stinks in the outfield, but has been excellent at 3b and SS. Bogey is having his best fielding season ever. And let's not forget that Arroyo made a great play on that slow roller by Altuve, that Dalbec made some good grabs at 1b, that Arroyo started that very nice DP, etc.

Because he put Cordero in RF instead of JBJ? One has a WAR of -.3 and the other -.4, so I don't see much difference. Why not complain about playing Arroyo at 3b and Bogey at SS because both made errors leading to 2 unearned runs which could have cost the game. But wait. He also started Duran--the guy who gave up a grand slam home run on a catchable ball to CF--in CF again. Shirley that was a worse move. Of course, Duran batted in all 3 Sox runs with a dinger and a double. Meanwhile, with Plawecki catching (Vazquez having been traded to the Astros), Eovaldi, Schreiber, and Houck were masterful in holding the Astros to 0 earned runs and a win for the Sox. For you to be right--that Cora is clueless--I think we have to ignore what actually happened in the game. I don't like Cordero either, but at least he did no harm and JBJ came in for him in the 9th. Meanwhile, all the other moves Cora made--and despite those two horrendous errors by Arroyo and Bogey--seemed to work awfully well.