Maxbialystock

That's not true. JDM, Bogey, and Devers are all playing exactly they way they have all August long. Maybe they are still pining for the departed Vazquez.

I'm mostly blaming Cora for tonight's debacle--with that disaster of a lineup he came up with. What the heck are those no-hit wonders Devers, Bogaerts, and JD Martinez doing in the game?

Actually, I often think of the entire Rays roster as no names--except that they signed Wander Franco to a pretty big contract. My guess is that Eck considers any player making less than $20M/year to be a no name guy. And last year the no name Rays had the most wins in the American League.

Tonight the Sox are up to their old tricks--can't hit, can't pitch, can't field, and can't run the bases. And they are doing this against a team who last their last 6 games and are 6-18 since the All-Star break.

Eck is an idiot. Calling them "no names" only pisses them off. Plus he seems oblivious to the glaring reality that the Sox name guys--Raffy, Bogey, and JDM, all of whom were on the All-Star Team--are in fact hitting like no names. Eck knows a whole lot more baseball than I could ever hope to, but it's stupid to insult guys.

Absolutely stunning numbers. You have no peer.

After an 86 freaking year drought, the Sox have won more WS titles, 4, in the 20 years John Henry has been the owner than any other MLB team. So to me it is absolutely unarguable that in those 20 years the Sox overall management has been the best there is in MLB. And the two truly big money clubs, the Yankees and Dodgers? They're the dummies. A quick pick at spotrac says that the Phillies ($242M in salaries this year) and Padres ($219M) are trending toward "money is no object." We'll see how they do. Both do currently have winning records. San Diego is 5th in attendance and Philadelphia 15th.

As one old-timer to another, may I say I completely agree with your thinking. I just don't see the return on paying one or two guys not only gigantic contracts, but, as someone else pointed out, guaranteed bucks. The Sox paid Mookie Betts a total of $33M for 5+ seasons during which his cumulative WAR was 41. The Dodgers are now paying him $365M for 12 seasons, which equates to $36M/season. In his almost 3 seasons with the Dodgers Mookie's cumulative WAR 12.3. Simply stated, for the Sox he was paid $6M per season and delivered on average a WAR of 8 per season. For the Dodgers, he's delivering 6 WAR (I'm rounding up because 2020 was a short season and 2022 isn't over) per season for $35M per season. And the Dodgers are fine with this because they can afford to give Mookie that much moola. More importantly, they lead MLB in attendance and in wins (81) to date.

FWIW, I'm well aware that JDM, Bogey, and Raffy have delivered tons of mail for the Sox. I think JDM by himself made the biggest difference in 2018 because adding him to the lineup just made everyone else better. And he's been good since--until this year, the last year of his contract. So kudos to DD for getting him. Bogey has been worth every dime, but at age 29, despite his improved defense (his DWAR is his best ever), he seems to have lost his power. Raffy has been terrific this year--just not this month. It is entirely possible that both Raffy and Bogey are fighting injuries. As most of you know, I just like to whine.

The Pirates are 6-24 since the ASG and currently in a 6 game losing streak, so this is an opportunity. However, from August 4 thru August 10 the Sox lost 3 of 4 to the KC Royals and 2 of 2 to the Atlanta Braves. In the 5 games lost the Royals and Braves scored 7, 5, 13, 9, and 8 runs. Then suddenly the pitching picked up against two good teams (winning records), the Orioles and the Yankees, and the Sox pitching gave up 3, 3, 3, and 0 runs in those 4 games while winning 3. The hitting still stinks. As stated above, it's Devers, Bogey, and JDM--the big money guys, which means they already get a lot of money or expect a big contract or both--who ain't delivering the mail. Raffy's OPS for August is .628 (vs .932 for the season), Bogey's is .539 (vs. 813 for the season), and JDM's is .527 (vs .780 for the season). So, lesson learned: paying big bucks guarantees nada. On another thread I've pointed out that Mookie Betts delivered a whole lot more mail (cumulative WAR of 40 for 5 seasons) for the "cheapskate" Sox than he has (cumulative WAR of 12 for 3 seasons) for the "money is no object" Dodgers. Did I forget to mention that this year the penurious Sox are paying Price, Sale, and Eovaldi $63M to deliver a combined WAR of 1.0? Anyone remember who hired those guys? Anyone? Anyone?

Agree with the junk, but tonight it's also well placed junk.

Hill has not pitched better this year than he is tonight, and I don't care that it's the Pirates.

That double was fielded cleanly, but he still had no chance to get Bogey.

Meanwhile, the lineup showed real life with no help from the Pirates defense.

Hill very impressive since the dinger, I’m more than happy to say. I hope he gets a quality start.

Hill starting when Winckowski is available was a bad decision. Hill does not have a good repertoire and therefore needs exquisite control to survive. But his control sucks and not just tonight.

Agree I've repeated the 2021 postseason tale too many times. But what's new is citing the 2012 team, which finished 24 games below .500 but had a comparable team ERA and better hitting than this team, which is 1 game below .500.

I think you are way too optimistic about the hitting, but agree the pitching was excellent (except for Davis of course). The Schreiber pitch for a double was actually not that bad. Just a very good swing by Gamel, kind of like that really, really low pitch Devers golfed into the stands a week or so ago.

Agree on "missing some spark," only I would say the team needs some heat and is currently either lukewarm or tepid. Certainly the hitting last night, despite the 5 runs, was tepid at best. Thus, as you say, the Sox were hitless for the last 7 inning.

On second thought, thank you very much for bringing up 2012, which I had thankfully forgotten. My thanks are because the 2012 Boston Red Sox finished @ 69-93, the worst season in the John Henry era. Interestingly, however, is that the 2012 Sox scored the 8th most runs in MLB that year and had the 11th best team OPS. So let's compare the 2012 and 2022 Sox teams. Both had lousy pitching: 2012 had the 27th worst ERA in MLB, and so far 2022 has the 25th worst team ERA. However, the 2012 hitting--8th in runs scored and 11th in team OPS--was actually better than the 2022 Sox who are 12th in runs scored and 12th in team OPS. But, what the hey, let's just say neither team, 2012 or 2022, could pitch worth a darn and neither had enough hitting to make up for the pitching deficit. Except, except. The 2022 team is one game below .500 even though they are playing in the toughest division in MLB--the other 4 AL East teams have winning records--and play each of those teams 19 times. And the 2012 team finished 69-93, 24 freaking games below .500. Plus, back then the AL East wasn't even the toughest division in AL, let alone MLB. The AL West was actually tougher. And that leads me to my point. I have defended the management of this year's bullpen for the simple reason that I think Alex Cora is one smart manager. And I now contend that every other Talksoxer who believes that Alex Cora has mismanaged his bullpen by not making a reliable closer his number 1 priority simply does not know what he or she is talking about. To remind. I have also repeatedly (ad nauseum, actually) reminded everyone that the same manager basically had no closer in the 2021 postseason which vastly exceeded any reasonable expectations. Everyone on Talksox has dismissed that as so much blather--Cora was lucky, it was only 11 games, and he's still incompetent.

And my contention is that fixing it wasn't as easy as everyone, including you says. Season to date, the three best Sox relievers--in terms of WAR--are Schreiber (WAR 2.1), Whitlock (WAR 1.8), and Houck (1.5). I just checked a list of the best relievers (both holds and saves) in MLB and found that, with few exceptions, those guys have all pitched 50 or fewer innings. The MLB leaders in saves is Hader with 29, and he's pitched just 36 innings. The MLB leader in holds is Devin Williams with 25, and he's pitched 45 innings. Despite having both been on the IL (plus Houck missed the Toronto series because of a needle allergy), Whitlock has pitched 66.1 innings and Houck 60. So could you explain to me why it was dumb to pitch them a lot more innings than a normal closer/holder would pitch when Whitlock has an ERA of 2.98 and Houck 3.15 and the rest of the Sox pitching staff has an ERA of 4.40? Schreiber's ERA, FWIW, is a terrific 1.89, but so far he's only pitched 47.1 innings in 45 games. My guess is that Cora has been cautious giving him longer (2 inning) stints because he's never been anywhere near this good (his career ERA is over 6) in the past. Same probably goes for closing--he's never done that either. And this. I agree the 9th inning is important. But neither you nor anyone else has presented a good argument on why the other 8 innings aren't also important. If Houck or Whitlock comes in to shut down the other team, who maybe scored 4 or so runs off the starter, for the 6th and 7th innings or the 7th and 8th innings, isn't that a good use of their ability? Alternatively--and this especially applies to this Sox team--what good does it do to save Houck, Schreiber, or Whitlock to close in the 9th when the other team rakes the other Sox relievers for 3 or 4 runs in the 6th, 7th, and/or 8th innings?

Despite my smart alec remarks, I think you are right.

Were you at those games? If you were, did you hear cheering when he entered the game? I ask because silence can be deafening.

"Anticipating a breakdown" sounds like booing to me.

In 2012 the Sox ERA was ranked 13th in the AL. This year it's ranked 14th.