Maxbialystock

Yankees are hurting, no question, but the AL East still leads MLB in winning percentage--slightly ahead of the NL West. The Yankees 10 game lead over the Rays and Jays is not insurmountable, but they are still odds on to win the AL East. August 1-15, without Vazquez, the Sox have gone 6-7, which ain't that bad considering that 9 of those games were against the Astros (Sox won 2 of 3), Yankees (Sox won 2 of 3), and Braves (Sox lost 2), and Orioles (Sox won 1). The disaster was losing 3 of 4 to the Kansas City Royals, currently @ 48-69 and 14.5 games back of Cleveland. The Sox are 2 games below .500 (57- 59) and only 5 games out of a wild card slot. However, no less than six freaking teams--Seattle, Tampa Bay, Toronto, Baltimore, Minnesota, and Chicago--are all 3 or more games ahead of the Sox. So Sisyphus has nothing on our Sox in terms of slogging up that hill. The Sox team ERA of 4.35 is 14th in the AL--awful. However, with Wacha back in fine form, plus Whitlock, Schreiber, Brasier, Barnes, Sawamura, Winckowski or Hill, and one or two others in the bullpen, I think the pitching might be OK. I think Plawecki and McGuire will be fine behind the plate. The lineup, on the other hand, is downright discouraging-- JDM, Aug OPS .500, July OPS .599, is in freefall (season OPS .780) Bogey's August OPS .553 Raffy's August OPS is .627. Story on the IL since 12 July and like to stay there until September Verdugo's August OPS is a terrific .978, but overall his hitting is the very soul of inconsistency Arroyo's August OPS is an unexpected .802, but he too can be inconsistent (but at least he's playing in the infield) Hosmer's August OPS is a dismal .584, but hey, he's got the good glove at 1b Pham's .819 in August is not far from his career .797. Duran's August OPS is .657 (he is .661 for the season) And Refsnyder, who has been hitting, and Kike Herndandez, who has not, are both due back today or this week.

During their last 11 games of 2021, the Sox beat the Yankees in the wild card game, slaughtered 100 wins Tampa (most wins in AL) 3 games to 1 in the ALDS, and finally lost 4 games to 2 to the Astros in the ALCS, and they did all that without a freaking closer. Their one blown save was by Houck in the 6th inning of a game Sale started but only lasted 2.2 freaking innings. During this year's 10-19 opening run, the Sox couldn't hit spit. Plus they needed Houck and Whitlock to shore up the rotation and do some long-relieving. They didn't use Schreiber as the closer for the simple reason that in his two prior seasons with the Tigers his ERA's were 6.23 and 6.32.

During their last 11 games of 2021, the Sox beat the Yankees in the wild card game, slaughtered 100 wins Tampa (most wins in AL) 3 games to 1, and finally lost 4 games to 2 to the Astros in the ALCS, and they did all that without a freaking closer. Their one blown save was by Houck in the 6th inning of a game Sale started but only lasted 2.2 freaking innings. During this year's 10-19 opening run, the Sox couldn't hit spit. Plus they needed Houck and Whitlock to shore up the rotation and do some long-relieving. They didn't use Schreiber as the closer for the simple reason that in his two prior seasons with the Tigers his ERA's were 6.23 and 6.32.

I definitely wanted to hang onto Schwarber, but I wanted JDM too.

"This well" is based on a pretty small sample. I think the "no closer" issue was caused by the weak pitching by both Barnes and Robles, to say nothing of the need to buttress the rotation and the middle to late inning bullpen. If all Cora needed was someone to stick his finger in that one little hole in the dike, he could have found someone easily. But pretty quickly the Sox pitching staff became one of the holiest in the American League.

One more time. Barnes had a great half season last year and then crapped out, so the Sox basically entered the postseason without a closer. And they didn't freaking need one despite beating the Yankees in the wild card, taking 3 of 4 from the 100-win Rays in the ALDS, and losing 4 of 6 to the Astros in the ALCS. The only "blown save" was by Houck in the 6th inning--not the 9th inning--in game 1 of the ALCS. Sale started and lasted just 2.2 innings. I am not against closers because the Sox have made excellent use of them in the past, especially Uehara in 2013. I completely disagree the Sox "overlooked" having a closer this year because they had two who had been somewhat successful in the past--Barnes and Robles. Whitlock, Houck, and Schreiber were used elsewhere this year because none of them had prior closing experience and because the Sox had more urgent pitching needs for earlier innings. Sad but true, the rules of baseball do allow teams to score runs before the 9th inning, so it behooves a manager and his pitching coach to put their best arms where they can do the most good. Right now after 116 games the Sox are 2 games below .500 and definitely have a shot at the postseason despite a team ERA of 4.35, which is the next to worst ERA in the American League. And you're blaming Cora for mismanaging them and not using three of his best arms to pitch the 9th freaking inning?

Actually, I think you and Eck are by yourselves. Last year Whitlock pitched the most innings of the non-starters (relievers) and had the team's second highest pitching WAR of 2.9. And he did that in large part because his manager sent him to the mound to do so. This year you want us to believe that same manager is an idiot who failed to use Whitlock as a one inning closer this season until game 116. This year Whitlock's WAR is 1.8 (4th best on the team) despite missing 1/3 of the season to date and even though he has started games and relieved for 2 or more innings.

Hold it, right there. You started this discussion by slamming Cora for "waiting" until game 116 to use Whitlock for a one inning save. Hugh and I are simply pointing out why Whitlock's usage, last season and this, has made sense. I don't disagree the Sox done good in this series, which surprised me as much as anyone else even though the Yankees are in fact in a slump.

I love Eck's passion for the game on the air and his HOF credentials, but Whitlock has too good a repertoire to be used sparingly--as closers usually are--on a team whose ERA is 14th of 15 AL teams. When Eck was a closer, he did it for the A's when they had a superb rotation. Last year in the postseason the Sox basically had no closer--they had no saves--and it absolutely made no difference. The only blown save was in the 6th inning of game 1 of the ALCS when Sale started and lasted just 2.2 innings.

I've been reading a terrific book, Rebel Without A Clause, and must point out that the correct word is "re-sign."

Your opinion has been oblivious about or completely ignored Whitlock's stuff and the need for it in more than a single inning, the 9th, in close games. If you are now saying that maybe he could have started or maybe he could have pitching multiple innings (which he was great at last year), that is a major change in what you have been spouting. Indeed, as I just pointed out on this thread and on the game thread, Whitlock only pitched the 9th last night because Cora gambled on Brasier and his 5.20 ERA to pitch the 8th.

I love your numbers, but I also like what I see when Whitlock is on the mound. He has starter stuff, a full repertoire which he executes well. More to the point, Old Red and Eckersley are blindly oblivious to the fact that there are 9 freaking innings in every game and 162 freaking games in a season. Some how, some way, the manager and his pitching coach have to find a way to prevent scoring in as many of those 9 X 162 = 1,458 innings as they can. Old Red and Eckersley are laser-focused on those 40 or so 9th innings when the Sox have a 3 run or smaller lead in the 9th inning. And they are oblivious to the other 1418 innings during which opposing teams are actually allowed to score runs if they can.

One more time, a reminder to you and your mentor Eckersley. Last year, the Sox had a terrific postseason and had a terrific shot at the World Series until the Astros pitching shut down the Sox hitters (who scored 3 runs in the last 3 games of the ALCS). On those 11 postseason games, the Sox didn't have a reliable closer and consequently never got a save. However, they also only had 1 freaking blown save in 11 games, and that blown save was by Houck in the 6th freaking inning in game 1 of the ALCS when Sale started and only lasted 2.2 innings. Also, don't forget the Sox best season ever, 2018, when Kimbrel, the very high-priced closer who was actually pretty good in the regular season, absolutely stunk in the nevertheless successful postseason.

I don't disagree that Whitlock just might be a pretty darn good closer, just as Eckersley turned out to be. But you and Eck are completely disregarding context, specifically, the overall pitching weakness of this team. Read my lips: the Sox team ERA of 4.35 is ranked 14th out of 15 AL teams. It stinks to high heaven. And that means Cora hasn't had the options he might otherwise have to make Whitlock a one inning closer. Last night with a 3-0 lead going into the 8th inning, Cora brought in Brasier with his 5.20 ERA to pitch the 8th inning, which worked and which is why Whitlock only had to pitch the 9th for the save. But it was a gamble, which you would have been the first to call him out on if the Yankees had scored in the 8th. Naturally, you take the 5th on the 8th because to you Cora can do nothing right. I don't remember Eck's repertoire when he was a starter, but I know Whitlock's, and it's pretty good--good enough to be considered a starter on a team whose rotation this year has been torn apart by injuries. Also good enough to pitch 2 and 3 innings in relief which is what he was so terrific at doing last season.

I've got you by six years and completely disagree. I do agree the outfield defense has been off-putting, but, except at 1b, which shouldn't be a defensive problem but has been this year, I have liked the infield defense of Devers, Bogey, and Story. Baserunning has also been subpar. But, even with JDM's obvious problems, Bogey's backsliding a tad (fewer dingers), Story's injury, Duran and Dalbec's disappointing performance, etc, the Sox have scored the 4th most runs in the AL and have the 5th best team OPS. The big problem--somewhat amplified by the weak outfield defense--is the pitching which has been decimated by injuries. And I point the finger directly at DD who acquired Price, Sale, and Eovaldi, all of whom the Sox are still paying for ($63M this year alone) and whose combined WAR this season is +1.0. Sox pitching right now has the 14th best ERA, 4.35, out of 15 AL teams. Yet, despite the abysmal pitching--thanks to all those arms going on the IL--so-so defense and baserunning, and decent but not great hitting, the Sox are 2 games below .500.

Whitlock has the repertoire to go more than 1 inning and is on a team whose rotation has been decimated by injuries and whose bullpen has been less than reliable. So it absolutely made/makes sense for Whitlock to go 2 or 3 innings in relief when Cora asked/asks him to. Oh, and last night with a 3-0 lead in the 8th Cora brought in Brasier with his 5.20 ERA and -0.4 WAR, which is how Whitlock avoided going 2 innings. Are you unaware that the Sox team ERA of 4.35 is ranked 14th of 15 AL teams? Season to date, Houck has 8 saves in 9 opportunities, Schreiber 4/6, and Whitlock 4/5. Plus a bunch of other guys who bombed.

Whitlock has the repertoire to go more than 1 inning and is on a team whose rotation has been decimated by injuries and whose bullpen has been less than reliable. So it absolutely made/makes sense for Whitlock to go 2 or 3 innings in relief when it made/makes sense. Are you unaware that the Sox team ERA of 4.35 is ranked 14th of 15 AL teams? Season to date, Houck has 8 saves in 9 opportunities, Schreiber 4/6, and Whitlock 4/5. Plus a bunch of other guys who bombed. Oh, and last night with a 3-0 lead in the 8th Cora brought in Brasier with his 5.20 ERA and -0.4 WAR, which is how Whitlock avoided going 2 innings.

Nice.

Wacha has been unreal tonight. A lot like Sale in that he is all business and doesn't shake off pitches. Unlike Sale, he has an excellent repertoire and very good command. That he is this good on his first start back is astounding. Some credit has to go to Plawecki--despite the snide remark last night that McGuire is the only decent catcher. I was about to comment that Devers is struggling against heat, but I think I'll hold that for a later game.

We both have real insight into the game and talksox is lucky to have us.

Gotta give the networks credit for featuring this series yet again and despite the struggles of the Sox (and Yankees, somewhat). It has been competitive and mostly well played. I was about to say Devers has trouble with fast balls again. But I think I'll save that thought for another game. Zoweee!!

My goodness has Wacha pitched a whale of a game tonight. Like Sale, all business, no shaking off of signs or scratching his ass or whatever. Unlike Sale, excellent repertoire and excellent command. Hard to believe this is his first start back. Some credit has to go to Plawecki for calling a good mix of pitches. On the previous game thread I read a comment McGuire should catch all the games because Plawecki is worthless--I'm exaggerating of course.

That's the $500M man.

Completely unfair to Vaz, who is beloved on Talksox, a clubhouse leader, a clutch hitter, and one of the smartest baserunning catchers ever. The Astros clubhouse was jubilant when they found out Vaz was joining them. And since then they have played just marvelous baseball (the 5-5 record does not tell the real story). Losing Vazquez pretty much finishes the Red Sox for this season and probably a couple more.

Nice game and win. First one I've watched in a while because of the blackout restrictions.