Maxbialystock

Well said except for the final point, bringing back Wong, a third catcher. I think he's a better fielder/thrower than Plawecki, but want Plawecki calling the pitches.

You mean Ortiz too? Among Dugo, Kike, and Pham, I put Pham dead last because his defense is worse than Dugo's.

Actually, I was impressed with last night's win and the 1 run losses the two nights before, both in the 10th inning and both because the Sox couldn't score in either 10th inning. I even said so and was greeted with stunned silence.

Love that. Hill is usually all business on the mound. So was Bello in his last start.

You said outfield?????? Dugo's DWAR this year is -1.1 and consequently his overall WAR is just 0.5. Kike ain't hitting this year but his career OPS is .736 compared to Dugo's .773. And Kike is an excellent outfielder. His WAR this year is 0.2 (in half as many games as Dugo). So, me, I'd keep both, put Kike in the outfield and Dugo as the DH.

It definitely is, but I kind of like to see those numbers--something to shoot for. I also like your enthusiasm today.

OK, that's it. I've had it. Where do you come off wanting to keep a guy Bloom cut a deal for when the consensus on talksox is that Bloom is clueless in Seattle. Plus this. Dugo will never be as good as Mookie, and that's why Bloom is dumb as a post. He should have kept Mookie.

Actually, I probably agree with the notion that Bloom could be in "over his head," but with some caveats as follows-- 1. As others have pointed out, this is first time as the honcho. He was great at the Rays, but never fully in charge. 2. The Rays system of finding and developing players is vastly different from the Sox system. If nothing else, the Sox can afford to spend at least twice as much on salaries as the Rays. They rarely develop good pitchers and prefer to buy 'em by the gross. The Rays find and develop good pitchers every freaking year. 3. DD inherited a ton of talent drafted/developed by Cherington and Epstein--and left a train wreck. Where, for example are all the great prospects he drafted 6 years ago, 5 years ago, 4 years ago, and 3 years ago? I don't see any. But DD inherited Mookie, Bogey, Raffy, Beni, JBJ (when he was good), Holt, Leon, Vazquez, Porcello, ERod, Kelly, Barnes, et al. So all DD had to do was go out and buy Price, Sale, Kimbrel, and JDM--all of whom were paid handsomely--to get that 2018 WS team. 4. By train wreck I don't just mean no player development. I also mean the Sox are still paying major bucks--$63M for Price, Sale, and Eovaldi--this year even though they aren't doing jack for the Sox. I also mean that, partly because of those salaries, keeping three of the best--Mookie, Bogey, and Devers--became impossible in Mookie's case and problematical in the cases of Bogey and Devers. 5. At Tampa there wasn't a lot of pressure because their fanbase was and is virtually nonexistent. Sox fans ain't so patient. Actually, if talksox and this thread are any indication, Sox fans have zippo patience. It's like working for the Queen of Hearts, whose usual remark is, "off with the heads." And I'm pretty sure that chant started in Bloom's first season, 2020, which to me was a nonseason because of the pandemic. Did it abate during or after the very successful 2021 season? Not so's you'd notice. And this year so far it's now a 235 page thread.

Agree, agree, agree. First, I too don't think Bogey's day is done. Second, I absolutely, categorically think long term contracts inevitably pay players salaries way above their performance level. Third, I agree JDM was a great acquisition, but this year he's overpaid. That said, he did not get a long term contract.

Fortunately, my words are just above yours, so everyone knows you are intentionally misquoting me.

Career? So, just like that, you wipe out last season as irrelevant. Actually, that makes sense because you have characterized 2021 as a non-season so you can continue to claim Bloom is clueless.

Funny thing, but I also though JDM was a great signing and I don't mind giving DD credit for it. He already had a bunch of good bats thanks to Cherington (and Epstein), but JDM filled the gap created by Ortiz's retirement and, I think, made everyone else in the lineup better in 2018. He does have a problem with sliders from righty pitchers, but he has been valuable until this year.

It is beyond question he basically collapsed last year and stayed that way this year. His WAR to date is -.5. But that's based mostly on April and May when his ERA's were 5.87 and an almost world record 9.64 in May. Grounds for DFA? I'm guessing many on talksox thought so. Instead, the Sox put him on the IL for over 60 days, which turned out to be a wise move. Somehow he seems to have regained his knuckle curve and almost his fastball that worked so well in the first half of last season. And, if you watched him last night in his 3d stint in 3 nights, you saw one very determined guy. The jury is still out on how long this will last, but it is crazy not to say, "boy did we and don't we badly need some version of the good Matt Barnes right freaking now." Houck is out. Whitlock is back, but Cora can't use him every night. Schreiber is still good but not as good as earlier, plus he is a one inning guy. I just looked at the wild card standings, I readily agree the Sox are definitely a long shot to get to the postseason. They are 8 games back of the Jays and Mariners with 36 games to go, and their run differential of -44 ain't promising. But, as moonslav loves to remind us, in baseball, including especially MLB, anything can happen.

Plus Bogey has never quit on this team, especially not this month when he has been in a slump. I'm not sure I would give him the contract he has reportedly demanded, but I do think he has been a stalwart since he came up in 2013 and played 3b in 12 of 16 games--including starting all 6 games in the WS--in the postseason when the Sox won the WS. Hard to believe that was 9 years ago.

Yep.

He fooled everyone? He's been the Sox most reliable reliever in August with an ERA of 1.74 in 11 appearances--8 of them against teams with winning records. Last night was his third stint--against the Rays and Jays--in as many nights--and he pitched a 1-2-3 inning after Brasier gave up 4 runs with no outs.

The guy who managed the Sox to their best season ever in 2018 and to the ALCS last year? Yeah, what a bum.

Freaking brilliant quote. Plus I too enjoyed that game.

I said 2d worst in the AL, not MLB. But I do agree with your comments on Fenway being a hitters park. Plus I think the Sox outfield defense--and at 1b--has made it tougher on the Sox pitching this year.

I'm sure you're right. I just wanted to make the point that he has been terrific and much needed--and that relievers can in fact come back. To a far lesser degree, something like that can be said about Brasier. Last night he stunk and almost cost the game, but overall in August he as been solid in 9 of 12 appearances during which he gave up 0 earned runs.

Good discussion on aces. I will offer a different rationale for calling anyone an ace--his freaking salary. Therefore Sale is our ace beyond question. Having read some good comments above, I am inclined to agree "ace" doesn't have much meaning these days because a real ace should be a stopper. Think Sandy Koufax or Pedro Martinez or Tom Seaver. The problem is that few teams really have that kind of starter these days. The Yankees, for example, are paying Gerrit Cole $36M/year. Unlike Chris Sale, he's healthy, and last year he was their guy in the wild card game--and got beat, lasting just 2 innings and giving up 3 runs on 7 days rest.

Glad you said that. It gives me an excuse to make a point. Talksoxers know I am hard over on those big contracts for top players, which I continue to believe are gambles that usually do not pay off. I'm a cheapskate. On the other hand, I've often thought Mookie Betts and Willie Mays are a lot alike. When Willie was inducted into the HOF, he said something like, "I have to be honest, I never saw anyone better." I agree with that--he's my fav even though Mike Trout has had an absolutely spectacular career so far. Mookie and Willie are roughly the same size--Mookie 5'9", Willie 5'10", but Mookie 10 lbs heavier at 180 to Willie's 170. Small guys with terrific coordination and arm strength to throw and swings to hit dingers and legs to steal bases. 5 tool guys with a whole lot of cumulative WAR. Willie came up in 1951 at age 20 and played through the 1973 season--and missed most of 1952 and all of 1953 because of service in the Army. His cumulative WAR was 156 for 23 seasons, which is about 7 per. In 1971 at age 40 his WAR was 6.3. And for all of that incredible career and reaching icon status, Willie Mays cumulative freaking salary was $1.8M. That's a big reason why he kept playing--his biggest salaries were at the tail end of his career. The dollar went a lot further then, but let's not kid ourselves. Curt Flood was right to break the reserve clause, and Willie Mays is a prime example why. After he retired, he was more than willing to be a greeter or whatever because he needed the money. So, while I am against the exorbitant salaries I read about today, I do understand that the owners of the past--and most notably the owner of the Chicago Black Sox--believed players should live in penury. I seem to recall that while he was the starting right fielder for the Brooklyn Dodgers--when they were good--Carl Furillo had an offseason job in construction to make ends meet. In 1960 when he was 38, the Dodgers dumped him to avoid paying a pension due a 15 year player, so he sued them and won.

He definitely sticks to his points. I knew nothing about Kike before last season although I have looked at his numbers before he got here. Like everyone else, I watched the games and liked what I saw although I did agree with moonslav it was regrettable how often Kike was pulled back to the infield when he was clearly--his DWAR last year was +2.1--the best outfielder defender on the team. Plus his overall WAR was 4.9. I doubt that Old Red is aware that Kike's 4.9 was a tad better than Mookie's 4.2 with the Dodgers last year. Or that with Kike the Sox got to the ALCS, just as with Mookie the Dodgers got to the NLCS. I am of course aware that Mookie overall is way, way better than Kike and has the past WAR's to prove it. This season, for example, Mookie is way ahead with a 5.4 WAR to Kike's 0.2. Unfortunately for the Dodgers, however, it's possible they are shelling out $365M for a player they may never see despite all the hoopla every time he catches a fly, makes a good throw, gets a hit or better still a dinger, etc. In 5.3 seasons (@ $6M/season) with the Sox Mookie's cumulative WAR was 42.3. In parts of 3 seasons with the Dodgers (@ $30M/season for 12 years) it's 13.2.

I know zippo about McGuire--except that I like what I've seen so far. I like jacksoniamarch's comments about his good hands because that's what I think I've seen.

Amen.