Maxbialystock

And I'm just saying Sox fans, especially those who've been fans since John Henry bought the team, should be grateful for the all the good times. In the John Henry era the Sox have pretty much been the standard for MLB--not nearly to the degree the Yankees have been in the past, but still the standard--but that doesn't mean there can't/won't be bad years. I do not at all disagree that right now is unprecedented in the John Henry era because the money is drying up, and historically the Sox have never had a good enough farm system not to need some big bucks to provide the odd big bat or two--or great arm or two--their so-called system doesn't provide. To make matters worse, someone else pointed out that, if Devers goes on the IL because of his bad shoulder, that would be $29M to add to Story's $23M, Giolito's $18M, Pivetta's $7M, Sale's $17M, and Turner's $6.7M--a total of $100M--the Sox would be paying for players who ain't playing (or not playing for the Sox). That $100M is out of the total payroll of $180M.

The rotation has been incredible given that their total salary is $14M and all 5 of them started for the Sox last year. Agree completely the hitting sucks, but it still had/has higher priority than fielding. The Sox were 7-3 on the West Coast and are 0-4 at home. Things fall apart; the center cannot hold; Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world.

Oh, stop it. Just stop it. This is the same franchise that ended the 86 year drought and won 4 WS. You haven't lived long enough to be allowed to comment on what really bad is. Just 6 years ago was the best season in Sox history--and it followed two seasons when the Sox won the AL East but lost in the ALDS both years--thus was Farrell fired. So in comes Cora plus JDM, etc--and bingo! And, since you're on a run, please identify which other MLB team is doing so much better than the Sox over the last 20+ seasons! We all know what happened. JH got pissed after the very pricey Sox--top payroll in MLB--bombed in 2019 and simply fired DD and brought in Chaim Bloom of Tampa Rays fame. And it's irrefutable at this point that that move simply didn't work. Not enough time to build a whole new system like the Rays--and definitely not enough smarts in the Sox so-called "system." Fact is, the Sox farm system has produced some good players, but JH made sure he bought what the farm failed to produce--especially hitters and pitchers. And DD was pretty good at using JH's bank to fill in the key slots--like JDM after Ortiz retired. Like Price and Sale and Kimbrel and Eovaldi. Like dumping HanRam and the fat thirdbaseman from San Francisco. And now we're in the twilight zone where any freaking thing can happen. Dogs are living with cats! We need the Ghostbusters!

What a great question(s). I'm serious. The Sox are doing everything wrong back home at Fenway and after going 7-3 on the dreaded West Coast. It passeth all understanding.

Agree completely. No team should ever allow itself to get this bad at this many positions. Yes, hitting comes first, but, just as you say, there has to be a minimum competency level that right now is well above what this team is doing because it's infuriating. As I said elsewhere, it's so bad right now--fielding especially, but also the lack of hitting--were I JH I would be tempted to fire Cora just to send a message. This mess is not Cora's fault, but managers are hired to be fired. And, yes, I agree this is probably mostly JH's fault. But he's still paying $180M, the 11th biggest payroll in MLB, and what he's got is an incompetent team--at least, right now they are. They were pretty good on the West Coast, so maybe it's a time zone thing.

Ok, I'll bite--I was surprised. Like everyone else I knew about the defensive issues and the lack of hitting, but the Sox were 7-3 on the West Coast--and, it turns out, the "AAAA Athletics" weren't that spineless because they are 5-5 against teams not named the Red Sox. And the Angels, whom the Sox beat 2 out of 3 games, are 7-6 and in 2d place in the AL West. And, oh, by the way, I didn't see you predicting the Sox going 0-4 at Fenway. Cat got your tongue?

Wrong analogy. The Titanic was brand new, technologically advanced, expensive, and the best passenger ship in the world. They simply chose to run full steam in the N. Atlantic in April at night--and they ignored warnings of sea ice ahead. Very shortly after hitting the iceberg, the captain knew they would sink. The problems of this team have been well known for a long time. Surveyed talksoxers predicted a losing season. Of course, this isn't like a ship because the Sox will finish the season. But right now it sure looks like a painful season--for the fans, the players, management, and ownership.

The above is a tad misleading. I intended to say simply that the Sox favor hitting, as do most MLB teams. This year's defense is way worse than defenses in the past and in fact is an embarrassment to the team, the fans, and MLB. I am quite sure JH is aware of this aspect. Since Cora is in his last year of his contract, JH might simply fire him. I don't think the defensive malaise is Cora's fault, but managers are hired to be fired.

True. But, as I said on tonight's game thread, the Sox have always favored hitting over fielding. In the four seasons--2004, 2007, 2013, and 2018--when the Sox won the WS they finished 1st, 4th, 1st, and 1st in MLB in total runs scored. In those same four seasons their team ERA's were ranked 11th, 2d, 14th, and 7th. And their fielding percentages (which may not be relevant to their actual defensive skills) were ranked 23d, 4th, 9th, and 9th.

If you look at the Sox Gold Glove winners over the years, almost all of them were good hitters. I'm not even sure Ellsbury deserved a GG in 2011, but he got one and also had once in a lifetime OPS for the season of .928. Hmmmmmm. Mookie had 4 and Pedey had 3 or 4, and both were excellent hitters.

It's also possible you don't understand. Position players have to do two things, field and hit. The Sox have always, always preferred hitting over fielding. Thus in their four WS seasons of 2004, 2007, 2013, and 2018, the Sox were ranked 1st, 4th, 1st, and 1st in MLB in runs scored in the regular season. I'm sure the Sox have no moral objection to good fielding, but they never let it get in the way of good hitting.

Sox are on a roll!

Maybe there's a tiny upside to all this. Dalbec no doubt has had a kind of inferiority complex because every time he comes up to Boston he demonstrates he can't hit and, really, field either. But now he fits in perfectly--at last.

Duran LF Reyes 2B O'Neill RF Casas 1b Dalbec 3B Yoshida DH Wong C Rafaela CF Hamilton, SS

He's in much better shape than Woods. He just doesn't have much hand-eye coordination.

Tiger made the cut for the 24th straight time at the Masters, a record--at 1 over par. Cut is projected at +4. I watched most of it. His drives were good, his irons were the worst I can remember, mostly because of the wind, which is close to the worst I've seen. On the 18th green players had to pause when the wind blew the sand out of the sandtrap and across the green. First time I've seen that because that particular trap is deep. His short game, which got him that +1, was excellent. He walked 23 holes today, and walking, yes, walking, is the weakest part of his game right now. As for tonight and this game thread, I like all the comments already. Except for the rotation, this team gives every evidence it is disintegrating before our eyes.

That's me right down the line.

Not being happy is endemic to talksox. Right now it's impossible to be happy even though the Sox are 7-6. The rotation is still doing well. The bullpen struggles, but has had some moments. The fielding is execrable. The hitting so far is the worst in a long time.

Actually, a big point. I saw the name, but forgot the lefty part.

Never saw Dwight--too far away to get him on TV. But definitely like Manny, who took fielding rather lightly but was dead serious about hitting and very good at it. This thread is about defense, and I just have to say, yet again, that the Sox have always given priority to hitting-- even for centerfielders and shortstops. And so far these 2024 Sox appear to have neither hitting nor fielding.

This discussion about how Cora is managing the bullpen is mindless. He has the experience and smarts--vastly greater than any of us--and he also seems to have a pretty good pitching coach. Thus the insane success of the rotation so far. The telltale on the pitching staff--which I seem to be the only one on talksox who is aware of--is that they have 12 righties and 1 lefty. All five starters are righties, which means opposing team can safely put in as many lefty bats as they want because, guess what, the Sox have one lonely lefty reliever. In short, the bullpen is unmanageable.

Interesting. I believe I'm correct in saying that this year's rotation has been unbelievably good--way beyond any rational expectations--and with five starters who started last year for the Sox. So maybe the new pitching coach has had something to do with that. And the same can be said about the bullpen--the pitching coach is in charge of them. He's also right there in the dugout with Cora when decisions are made. He's also with Cora before the game when they map out contingencies--usually, who are they going to use for the last 4 innings. Also, let's not forget that the one thing the Red Sox stink at is developing pitchers of any kind. The miracle of the rotation is both that they have been terrific and that their combined salaries add up to just $14M. I think I'm right that the only one of the five who came up through what is laughingly referred to as the Sox "system" is Bello. We should also note that, out of 13 pitchers on this staff, just one is a lefty--Joely Rodriguez. Lefties reportedly are pretty good against lefty bats, and, given that the entire Sox rotation is made up of righties, you can bet there are plenty of lefty bats in the lineup every single night. But just one freaking lefty pitcher to get them out. This year I'm distraught at all the errors, other misplays, so-so hitting, etc. I think it's unarguable that the focus is not there--like Hamilton not touching the bag last night. Maybe that's on Cora, I don't know. But announcing he is destroying a bullpen after 13 freaking games is just stupid.

It's real ugly right freaking now. This opening Fenway series was an embarrassment.

Not all basements are equal. AL East is the winningest Division in MLB.

Sox lose their opening series at the Fens, not just 3 games to 0, but in a variety of embarrassing ways. Almost as embarrassing is the Sox payroll--it's still the 11th biggest in MLB. Remember AAAA Oakland? They've climbed out of the AL West cellar and are now 5-8 to our 7-6. They do have the lowest payroll in MLB, $62M, roughly 1/3 of the Sox payroll, $180M. Wouldn't it be fun if the AAAA Athletics passed us in wins?