Kimmi

The Nats have two major league catchers already on their roster in Wilson Ramos and Jose Lobaton. I think Lobaton is known as a pretty good pitch framer. Regardless, the Nats were going to have to DFA Leon because he had no options. Good for the Sox. We picked him up for almost nothing. Leon has shown nothing yet at the major league level, but in the minors, he and Vazquez were virtual clones defensively. In fact, I was just reading that he and Vazquez are good friends, and that their careers have more or less paralleled each other. Believe it or not. As far as Hanigan goes, I agree that he is not a full time catcher. He and Leon (or Quintero) need to be able to hold things down for a couple of months.

When you say 'THAT dropoff', I'm not sure exactly what you are including in that dropoff. I guess there is no way that we will never know for sure how much losing him will affect our pitching staff. We can look at framing and caught stealing numbers, but we won't know if the staff would have pitched better and with more confidence having Vazquez behind the plate than some other catcher.

Well, this is true. If the rest of the offense had done their jobs last season, JBJ's automatic out could have been covered. The same applies for this season. We need the other guys in the line up to do what they're supposed to do. We know that there are bound to be slumps and underperformances. We just can't have them being prolonged slumps and we can't have every member of the line up experiencing them at the same time.

Vazquez typically saves a team 2 wins just in pitch framing numbers over an average catcher. That does not take into consideration any indirect effects of that pitch framing skill.

I don't know if you're referring to me as one of these people, but I will say again that I think losing Vazquez is going to hurt. He is known as an elite pitch framer and he seems to handle the pitching staff very well. Pitchers have raved about him. Honestly, while the CS% is nice, CS% is not that big of a deal to me. That said, I have also expressed my happiness about having Hanigan on the team since he was signed. In fact, I really wanted him signed last year over AJ or any other catcher. Really, really wanted him instead of AJ. The point being, with Vazquez injured, I think the Sox have about the best case reasonable replacements available. I like things even better now that the Vazquez Clone has been signed. That's not to say that losing Vazquez is no big deal. IMO, it is a bigger deal than most people think. This is a pitching staff that would have benefitted a great deal from Vazquez' skills. My posts yesterday were mainly in response to your false claim that Hanigan/Leon would not be a good defensive tandem. They will be very good, but they will not be as good as Vazquez/Hanigan would have been.

I am deeply, deeply hurt that I didn't get a personal invite to play in your league. Not that I have the time to play, since I am already committed to two leagues, but I am deeply hurt nonetheless.

No, I'm not downplaying it, and if you read my first posts from yesterday regarding the loss of Vazquez you will see how concerned I am. I was just trying to make the point that Hanigan and Leon will be a good defensive tandem. I am less concerned today, with the signing of Leon, than I was yesterday. One of the reasons that the Sox were likely able to get Leon for virtually nothing is that Leon is out of options. Or maybe the Nats don't value defense and pitch framing like the Sox do. And, it's not like Vazquez is costing the Sox a ton of money.

The thing about pitching around the 7 and 8 hitters to get to the light hitting #9 hitter is that every move has a counter effect that mostly offsets the original move. It's almost a no brainer for an NL manager to pitch around guys to get to the pitcher in some situations. Most of the time it works out according to plan. What people don't realize is that the secondary effects of this move, such as turning the line up over and starting the next inning with the top of the order instead of the #9 hitter, offsets much of the gain from the previous inning.

You asked what we had to counter with in terms of Hanigan and Leon being a good defensive tandem, so I countered. Now you're going to change your argument?

I am not downplaying the loss of Vazquez. Losing him for the season makes me sick. However, I am encouraged by the fact that our other catchers are also very good defensive catchers. It's not like they are Jorge Posada.

Exactly. We need Hanigan and Leon/Quintero to hold down the fort for a couple of months until Swihart gains some seasoning. Hopefully, he will be ready by then.

Some guys are likely to underperform, while others should overperform. There are likely to be injuries, but this team has good depth to cover most positions. As long as we don't have a repeat of virtually everyone underperforming like we did last year, we should be good to go offensively.

As long as the other guys do what they're supposed to do, the Sox can hide one weak bat in the #9 hole. Most catchers are not known for their great offense.

Makes sense SK. I am glad that you don't think Vazquez' injury will not hurt the team a lot. I am really bummed about losing him for the season, but reading your posts and knowing that our back ups are very good defensively give me a little more confidence that the Vazquez loss won't be as bad as I originally feared.

The minor league throwaway is a virtual clone of Vazquez. Over the past 5 years, Leon has thrown out 49% of baserunners in the minors and majors. I wonder who was the only catcher in the minors in 2013 who was a better pitch framer than Vazquez was? Oh, that would be Sandy Leon! He saved his team 21.4 runs in pitch framing.

Out of all of the defensive stats for catchers, CS% is the least important. Handling the staff, ie pitch calling and pitch framing are far more important. Hanigan has ranked among the top in pitch framing for the past several years. He will save the team many runs on that ability alone. Hanigan is also known as a superb pitch blocker. He can save the team about a 1/2 win with that skill.

The fact that Leon doesn't know our staff is a concern, but having a veteran defensive guy like Hanigan mentoring him should help Leon familiarize himself more quickly.

I agree. I think this team will be very solid defensively.

The Sandy Leon pick up is a good one. This almost insures that Swihart will not be rushed, and it gives us some added depth at the position. Defensively, Leon is pretty much a Vazquez clone. His offense is nonexistent, but his defense is excellent.

This might be the silliest statement that I have seen from you so far.

Hanigan's BABIPs during those last two years were a ridiculously low .216 and .240. He had line drive rates of 21.5% and 21.8%, respectively. We should see some regression from him. Not that he's going to be an offensive powerhouse, but he should hit better than what he has hit the past two seasons.

Good point. It sounds more and more like Vazquez will miss the whole season, so roster problem solved.

Nah, Farrell stated that Mujica is his closer to start the season, just that other options "could be available". I don't see it as a closer by committee situation. Hopefully, Koji isn't out for that long anyway. It also looks like Kelly will start the season on the DL so that the Sox can carry an extra BP arm to start the season.

Hanigan is an excellent pitch framer and defensive catcher. If we had to lose Vazquez, he is one of the best backups we could hope for.

Farrell has said that who will catch along with Hanigan will be based on defense and who can lead the pitching staff. That makes it sound like Quintero. Swihart is not ready behind the plate. OTOH, Swihart is on the 40 man roster and Quintero is not. Adding Quintero means having to drop another player. All that said, I think the Sox have to go with Quintero.