Kimmi
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Everything posted by Kimmi
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I agree that the Sox need to trade some of these prospects for areas of need, namely pitching. That is part of the value of a strong farm system. Votto and Chapman would be nice players to have, but I think their cost is going to be too high. It's not just the prospects that we will have to give up, but also their salaries on top of it.
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It depends on what the goals of the White Sox are. If they're trying to contend next season, then trading Sale probably wouldn't make sense. If they're trying to reset and rebuild, then trading him for several top level prospects would make all the sense in the world. Cherington did not have the luxury of taking 3-4 years to rebuild the team, without also trying to keep the team in contention every year while doing so. He had to also make moves for players who could keep the team competitive. People are so hung up on the "3 last place finishes in 4 years" thing (which I can understand being upset about) that they can't see what a truly remarkable job Cherington did with the farm system. And as I keep saying, he managed to win a championship while doing so.
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Doctors have said that he is healthy. It's just a matter of whether he will get in enough at bats to be ready by spring. Even if he isn't ready by the start of the season, he shouldn't be too far behind. Hanigan and Leon can hold down fort until he is ready. I'm sure the FO will listen to all offers, and I'm sure they will pull the trigger if the deal makes sense. That said, I'm hearing that they really value depth at that position, particularly after what happened last season. They might not be as willing to trade Swihart as some of us think, just because it's a position of strength for us.
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Finally, a voice of reason.
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That is true, and that duo should be able to hold fort until Vazquez is ready. That said, we saw last season how quickly thinks can go south in the catching department, and the effect that it can have on the pitching staff. If you can work out a trade for someone like Sale centered around Swihart, then I think you have to do it. But otherwise, it would be very difficult for me to part with Swihart during the offseason, not knowing exactly how Vazquez will rebound.
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I'm glad you posted this. I was going to post this same quote. I am glad that the other executives recognize what a great job Ben did with his long term goal. Dombrowski stated that he has had a lot of interest from other GMs, and that he was surprised at how early and how serious discussions have been already. That, along with this quote from PA, speaks volumes for the job Ben did building the farm.
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Doesn't sound like Swihart will be going anywhere at least until the Sox are sure of what they have in Vazquez.
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I honestly doubt that the White Sox will trade Sale, but you never know unless you try. They supposedly love Swihart. Centering a deal around him could be possible if the other pieces are enough. Last I heard, the Marlins were a mess. I wouldn't put it past them to deal anyone.
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I don't think Beane got fleeced in the deal, as others do. I agree that he got some good value back. Beane is no dummy, as some like to think he is. My understanding is that he has 4 very good pitching prospects who are about 2-4 years away. He knows his team is likely not going to contend before then, and he would probably be better served by trading Gray and getting young position players in return who will be major league ready in that same time frame.
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You don't know that. Your opinion is just that - your opinion. Just as my opinion is only my opinion.
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I know. I was agreeing with you.
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Of course it's all conjecture. Nobody knows what any other GM is willing to part with and what they are willing to take in return.
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Not backtracking anything. Go back and read.
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My notion of dealing from the farm alone depends on what team you're dealing with. I believe that Oakland and Miami (possibly some others) are looking at a rebuild. It is not beyond the realm of possibility that they would not require any major league ready talent back. Again, my main notion was being able to acquire a young, cost-controlled pitcher without having to trade Betts or Bogaerts.
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You don't know whether Miami will trade Fernandez or not. You don't know if Oakland will trade Gray, and what Beane will want for him. Cleveland needs offense. They might be willing to take Hanley (plus prospects) if the Sox pay a huge chunk of his contract.
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My main contention was that a trade could be made that didn't involve Betts or Bogaerts. I didn't include Swihart in that, or any other major league ready player. Buccholz, Hanley, Swihart, JBJ could all be included as part of a package along with prospects. Certainly other teams will join in the auction, but from what I've read, other teams don't have as much to give up as the Sox do, even when you exclude Betts and Bogaerts.
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I honestly don't know what it would take to get a number one. I listed several possibilities in a previous post, including a trade centered around Swihart, whom the White Sox love, or a 3-team trade. Many people think that Beane got fleeced in the Donaldson trade. Maybe he just sees value in players that others don't. Who knows what he'd be willing to take for Sonny Gray.
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Ha. I disagree just to disagree? All I posted to begin with was that Henry had a preference for trading for a #1 rather than signing a big free agent contract. You questioned my source, then said he was just filling space, bla bla bla, and now your're saying that any GM prefers that, so you agreed with me all along. I'm pretty sure that you're the one who disagrees just to disagree.
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No one is expecting him to get something for nothing. I am pretty sure I am not going to like the price we pay, whether it's for a free agent or for a trade. But I am very sure that Dombrowski will get us a #1 pitcher. Personally, I think there are trades that can be made for a young #1 that don't involve Betts or Bogaerts.
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It's not a matter of having a cost-controlled player versus having a high priced player. It's a matter of paying for a player in terms of prized prospects or major league players like Betts (plus money if you want to later extend said player) versus paying for a player in dollars. Not all GMs are going to prefer giving up their prospects or young studs.
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I really think it's because the players union has been encouraging players not to accept the QO, and to look for multi-year deals instead. The owners, knowing this, are more apt to give a QO to a lower tier FA. If the owners think the player will decline, it's to their advantage to give an offer, so they can get the draft pick. Some of the borderline or lower tier players need to start accepting the QO and make the owners pay $15 mil to a player who might not be worth it. That will make owners more reluctant to hand out those QOs, which I think would benefit the players in the long run.
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I don't follow other teams closely enough to know, for the most part, what their needs are and what they have to offer. That said, based on what I do know, I think Oakland and Miami are two teams who would be willing to go that route. Also, read my above post for other options for trades that do not involve giving up Bogaerts or Betts. Dombrowski is a wizard, as you have said many times. I trust him to get the job done.
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You don't know that for sure. There are likely teams going into rebuilding mode who aren't necessarily looking for major league ready talent. Aside from that, a team like Chicago WS might take a trade centering around Swihart. A team like Cleveland who needs offense and doesn't have a large payroll might take a trade centering around Buchholz and Hanley, provided the Sox ate a good chunk of Hanley's contract. There's also the possibility of a 3 team trade, where the Sox are giving up mostly prospects, and a major league bat is being traded from the 3rd party. In any case, the point is that everybody's favorite whipping boy Cherington has left the Sox in a position where they have the pieces to do what they need to do. Yes, it will be costly, but it is doable.
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Who said anything about needing to be extended right away? The cost controlled aces that the Sox or any team would trade for are probably under control for about 3-4 more years. At that time, they will become free agents needing to be re-signed. So, a team gives up several prospects for a young ace for about 3 years, then will need to shell out millions of dollars on top of that if they want to keep that ace beyond 3-4 years.
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Excellent post. You should post more often. You have a lot of good insight.
