jad
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Everything posted by jad
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I am still astounded at the stupidity of the owners, playing the blame game. Let's just suppose the blame is shared equally (I don't believe that, but nevermind!). Why don't the owners see that this does not work to their benefit? If fans hate the owners and support the players, then when baseball starts, they'll watch it, supporting the players. But if the owners succeed in making the fans blame and hate the players, guess what: they WON'T go to the games. How do the owners figure that's a win? (Unless, as I suspect, their egos mean more to them than the success of this particular business.)
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It's beginning to look like Manfred and a group of owners really do not want a season. I'm not sure how they do not realize that a baseball-free year, leading to an acrimonious spring, likely ending in a strike, will not dramatically decrease the value of their franchises. Given the idiocy of the owners, this is something I would almost welcome. A new professional league run by people who are not committed to ruining the sport (e.g., by getting rid of minor leagues) might actually work, given that players may well not get any of the money in those so-called guaranteed contracts with MLB: the present owners have not given ANY indication they are serious about a season. They HAVE given an indication that they would love to get the income generated by a post-season. (But after all this, who would want to watch?)
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Exactly. Except your omission of: MLB: What is WRONG with you? I can't believe you're so obstinate.
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Because of the respect I have gained for you during the last few months, I will only say now that I am truly envious of your innocent naivete, whether real or feigned!
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Even more amusing will be NY's efforts to keep it sealed. Why bother? I think most fans are not shocked--of COURSE teams tried to steal signs. They always have. And of course they all KNOW other teams are doing it (wasn't this the period when the Yankee catcher-- was it Russell?-- essentially was going to the mound every other pitch to change sign sequence? Just before MLB stupidly put in the rule preventing it and thus opening the floodgates on ... SHOCK SHOCK SCANDAL ... cheating?
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But if this season goes (and I think it will--- i.e., Manfred will impose his 50 game season and players, either en masse or individually, will refuse to play), it's almost CERTAIN that that will bleed into next season. The owners will then doubtless act as they usually do (like dumbasses) and will also almost certainly run afoul of laws against collusion (as they did years ago). I can't see how there will be a 2021 season free of acrimony, which almost certainly will end in a strike.
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Sure. Hyperbole. We do that here. What I mean is they are treating this as a PR contest, not as negotiations (why should they publicize any of their offers? several of which have amounted, as one poster has noted here, to no more than throwing s*** on the wall to see what sticks). And most fans (we included) go along, asking: "Who is to blame?" But that's ridiculous! The players are their asset (Apple does not start an ad campaign by trashing iPhones!). NBA and Adam Silver of course understand this; even Gary Bettman understands this.
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Exactly. And the value of their franchises continue to rise (something they do not count when calculating their profits). But their strategy of demonizing the players may well backfire if the fans agree with them. The owners may learn that fans go to games to see the players, not to pay tribute to some filthy capitalist pig of an owner. (Oh dear, that was harsh. What if an owner finds this hurtful?). Or maybe the owners have already considered this. If baseball dies, they can always turn their state-subsidized assets (stadiums parking lots) into a real estate bonanza?
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Yup. It's sports, not life. If "EVERYONE" is doing it (that's what you said, not that "SOME" people are doing it), then it's not cheating.
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In sports, yes it does.
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https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/29298330/alex-cora-astros-sign-stealing-two-man-show This is one of many reasons why I admire Cora and can't wait to get him back.
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I don't understand. How? If Mike Trout decides he won't play, so what? If I were a younger player making 500K, I wouldn't base my decision on what someone making 10-50x what I make does. I think the numbers of players who opt out may be significant, but it won't stop games from being played. (On the other hand, it may well be that someone making 20million/year has developed such an extravagant life-style, the thought of losing even a nickel is too horrifying to contemplate.)
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Yes. SOME players. But I'm guessing many will not. Perhaps it's because I chose to retire. It's very easy for me now to relate to someone who says "I have enough money to live comfortably. I don't need to kiss your ass to make more. Give me a rational reason to return to work, and I'll listen."
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I agree. And many of the best players have more money now than they could ever possibly spend. Why would they play an abbreviated season, taking on all the associated aggravation and risks? If many of them 'opt out', it would have the same effect as a strike (without having to make the younger players pay the price).
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Particularly worrisome to me was Manfred's seemingly positive promise yesterday "100% certain we will have baseball." I expected him to say something along the lines of 'owners and players want the same thing and are getting close.' Instead, the basis of his confidence (he himself said) was the clause in the March agreement giving him the power just to impose a 48 game schedule without the players' approval. (Gee, suddenly the March agreement becomes sacrosanct!).
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Maybe those I've heard on various talk radio shows in the last couple of days, claiming that this didn't happen, should read the Red Sox organization's own statement that says it did. https://www.si.com/mlb/2020/06/10/boston-red-sox-confirm-torii-hunter-racist-slurs-fenway-park
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But they HAD agreed in March. That's what makes this so ridiculous. Since then, the players keep suggesting forms of their original position (ie. they are negotiating in good faith). You never know WHAT the owners will propose, and often their proposals have nothing to do with how the negotiations have been going up to that point. (I realize this is only based on what has been out there publicly. Those of you who have negotiating experience are suggesting that this may be smoke and mirrors, and that there is very likely real work going on behind the scenes. I really hope you are right)
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Oh you're right. Of course. Odd, they didn't even seem like 'negotiations'--just owners and players trying to figure out what would work. I give a lot of credit to Silver for knowing how to manage these things.
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Thanks. Yeah, I've heard a couple of players remark on that, when, say, an agent reveals to them what the team said about them. And I just don't understand the point of leaking info--all it does is put BOTH sides in a bad position (maybe feeling insulted, or the opposite, feeling that they now have to dig in on some ridiculous 'leaked' position). Cf. the NBA--I'm sure stuff was out there, but I never heard a word of what owners and players were doing to salvage the season.
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Thanks. That gives me a little more hope. (And to "Oldtimer", you're right. I have an anti-owner stance, and I don't hide that. I just don't understand why they seem to be trying to win a p.r. war by demonizing the players. Jesus Christ! The players are their best asset! If the owners 'win', and the fans end up hating the players, they won't pay money to go see them.)
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SOmeone with negotiating experience, or a lawyer, please help here. It doesn't sound to me that the owners are negotiating in good faith at all, with any of their proposals. But is this normal? (For example, there are wild and aggressive public statements and proposals, but quiet negotiations going on--serious proposals and counter-proposals--that we never hear about?; or perhaps these combative public stances are just a routine part of all negotiations?--- Worth noting that we have seen none of that in the NBA or NHL).
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Baseball 2020? I don't see anything in the new proposal that looks like negotiations. Now the owners are trying to make almost a third of player compensation contingent on playoffs. It also makes hash of their earlier argument that they lose 650K per game, in that the new proposal adds games to their earlier proposal while only slightly raising player pay. (Huh? If they were REALLY losing money for each game they played, how does it make sense to add games? Games for which they won't really pay players much of anything.)
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Without Dice-K's 18 wins, there's no ring that year.
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Well, JD Drew and Agon gave the RS EXACTLY what anyone would have expected. Drew was a .280 hitter and continued to do that. I've never understood the negative reactions toward AGon (I believe he ALSO hit pretty much his career average-- .299 was it? Nothing wrong with that) ... well, I need to qualify that. I think I do know why Boston fans did not like AGon (whereas SanDiego fans and LA fans liked him) ...but it has nothing to do with baseball performance.
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OMG! Owners have DEBT!!! And, while their franchises soar in value, they sometimes do not make profits in addition to that. And they lose CONCESSIONS!!! My God, they may actually have to tap into their billions in off-shore bank accounts to feed their families. (I now see the error of my ways.)
