iortiz

Papi's face said it all... "f*** these bums pitchers."

Embarrassing, simply embarrassing.

And here we go, again...dammit Oh Crawford!

This.

Really?, It made me vomit a bit. If there's no more options (unlikely), I would put Bard as a starter any single day above Miller/Wake/Lackey/Wieland/D-k But again, we don't need to be scientists in order to know that this rotation needs at least one solid/healthy SP.

Hell, it's shocking how this organization has wasted Those tons of money, wow!... simply unreal.

Sure, he is arguably a good/talented general manager, but still the pile of failures are out there. If the Sox miss the playoffs, the blame has to start with Theo Epstein (would have an accumulative of 3-years of failures in a row -- beyond isolated events like 2009 season --) -- the scope of the note is 3-4 years as well ---

SNAP!. Shocking!. Illustrative! Convincing !. Forceful.! Words more, words less; numbers more, numbers less; names more, names less; in the end, all our concerns and discussions about Mr. Theo Epstein for the last couple of weeks are here. Who is the brave and give him another 100 MUSD next season? Who says, I? Send this case to Harvard Business School and put it next to Enron's case.

Exactly. IMO if this team at least goes to the ALCS, Theo can continue but still, questions will have to be answered, and his permanence to 2013 will depend on his performance of 2012 season. On the other hand, if this team make the WS (notice that I didn't say win it, some around here have made me softer ), I would give him 3 more years, and E1 could go in peace. :harhar: No, we don't. As I said, we are putting 3 years on the table. The last three 3 years. Enough scope to me in order to make a considerable move in our foundations (GM/Coaches/players/farm,etc.). It doesn't matter how you split the W/L columns through time -- months/weeks/days --. The only thing that matters in order to rate his job will be the overall result through 3 years. We aren't considering isolated events in order to rate his job. It is not September 2011, It is not April 2011, It is not go out early in 2009 and It is not even make the playoffs in 2011 or 2010. What we are considering in order to rate his management, is a range of THREE FULL YEARS. Reason why we have to wait how this 2011 season ends in order to deliberate. That being said... One the other hand and regarding to your question, as I said, make the POs is a must to this team. It is not an achievement and it shouldn't be taken as a goal. This is not TB or KC baseball. You take the POs for granted since day 1 as an organization's milestone -- among a lot other during the season --. When do you start talking about an achievement? When you make at least the ALCS and IMO you can rate that achievement like this: LOSE ALCS Average WIN ALCS Good WIN WS Excellent Just for the record. I wish/hope/desire that Theo continues 3 more years or at least 1 year which would mean that we made this year the WS/ALCS. But again, the things are not deserved but earned.

E1, you are missing completely our point. Our point has been: if this team fails again this year -- don't make the POs or go early like in 2009-- this team would have achieved nothing but 3 years in a row of full failures, and the GM and Co. should go. Clear? On the other, you already agreed that Theo should charge the main load of our issues already discussed (FA, farm/pitching depth, etc) which have been the main cause of this 3-year-debacle. That being said, IMO (my point) we would have seen enough and the ship would be ready for another chief in command. Nobody is taking away his credit (WS), or doubting about his talent or wishing any bad to him. But a cycle could be end if we fail again this year. Any organization has cycles. The Boston Red Sox is not immune to that. As I said, 3 years in a row of failures would've been enough to me. The signs/results are there. You say no, give him more time (reason why I asked: what else you need to see in order to make a move). Sure, it ain't over (main premise of my argument since I began the whole thing with the word if, remember? ) We have to wait and see how it ends and deliberate. So... The only difference I can see between you and me is PATIENCE That's all.

Rays lost, for once and for all capitalize this opportunity for God's Sake.

Good point, and another good way to see the issue.

Nobody said it was easy; nevertheless, this is still his job and is very well paid in order to deliver RESULTS, just as any other job according with the resources available (plenty here) and expectations associated with the money deployed. Sorry E1, but I don't buy the 3rd-best-W-record thing as an argument since still the SECOND biggest payroll in the AL and as you said, they still have the 3rd in all BB. Make a good paper in the POs is at least their MAIN goal as long as they spend those tons of money. No excuses my friend, no excuses. BTW, this???... doesn't make your argument stronger but the opposite. 2011-- 3rd highest payroll 2010-- 2nd highest payroll 2009-- 4th highest payroll 2008-- 4th highest payroll

The name of the game is RESULTS, always. If he does right, he will be praised, otherwise lynched. Public characters are always in public scrutiny.

Cashman eating Theo's lunch...

Listen Gentlemen. Let's close the remain 6 games with victories. If we achieve that (complicated but I still got slightly faith) this team could come back form hell as the Phoenix bird and win it all. LETS GO RED SOX!

Sounds adequate.

Sorry, my bad, missed just put in the paper but still in my mind, trust me . It is on my top 5 as well.

Sure, RM, MU and Barcelona are top teams, but if they don't win at least their country-leagues, they suck and everybody points at them and often their coaches, players and GM go (theres no room for 3 or 4 years of failure like in Boston ), due their payrolls and expectations. Mostly RM. Well, I would say that the Premiere League (England) or the BBVA League (Spain) is like the WS in MLB The Champions Legue is something else and goes beyond. Imagine a MLB-level at any country in europe (where the best leagues are). Then take the champion and the sub-champion of each country and put them in a tournament. That is the Champions League. You can't find a MLB-LEVEL (organization, payrolls, players, etc) at any country outside the US. Maybe Japan but I doubt it. Soccer is pretty different since it is the most popular sport around the world. You can find several high-level leagues around the world (equivalent to MLB ) like Italy, Spain, England, Germany, etc. Hell, the "passion" (fanaticism I would call it that way) in Soccer have turned very bad last years. A lot people have died in the last decade at soccer games and in certain stadiums women and children and even fans from the visitors' team can't go there since the environment has turned insecure, mostly in Latin America. So... you can imagine the pressure on players, coaches and GMs by the fans and the media, even death threats had been in effect on them. I don't go anymore to stadiums. I just follow MLB and soccer. I like NFL and NBA, but I'm not that expert but I like them. Collage football? I don't follow it, so many teams, I don't even understand the rules in order to make a bowl game, maybe someday you could explain it to me hehehe. Hokey?, I don't even understand the rules

And everybody on this board would be agree with you. Yup. On a very,very, thin ice. I don't see other 3 years of bad management after other 2012 failure.

Well, then let's wait other 3 years my friend, as I said. Seriously E1, NOTHING matters if you can't even make the playoffs or go out early once there, certainly not even to have the 3rd-best-W-record or play well through the season or beat NY in the year-series or whatever excuse you want to call. As I said, this team has the Obligation to make the playoffs. This is not TB or KC baseball. You spend 180 + MiUSD in order to make the POs and go further once there. An achievement to me is making the WS, and if you rush me, win it. About Soccer, your perceptions is so far away to be accurate. Seems like you don't live in a soccer country my friend. Real Madrid SUCKS, their payroll is the highest around the world and they didn't win nothing last year. They didnt win the League or the Champions (didn't even make the finals). Do you know what happened after the Barcelona's semifinals-match in the Champions? They couldn't get out of the stadium after a while due a looooot of fans wanted to throw 'em rocks, and the media went after their heads. Outcome: A lot players and Valdano (GM) gone. They are not soft like NESN, trust me. On the other hand, MU won the 2008/2009/2011 Premier league , 2008/2010/2011 FA Cup, the 2010 Football League Cup and in 2008 the Champions and they were into the finals last year (Regardless they have been in the POs last five years in a row). There's no comparison with the Boston Red Sox results. We didn't even make the POs last year, went early in 2009 and today we are in jeopardy. What are you talking about? Faith? Well, I've been faithful last 3 years. I'm not masochistic. Sure, I'm not that patience as you seem to be.

I've been saying a looooot of times even before the 2011 trade deadline, that this team is unbalanced. We can't trump with only offense. We need at least another solid/healthy/young/(3-spot-profile) pitcher. IMO Priority #1: SP (3-4 spot) Priority #2: Sign Papelbon Priority #3: at least a couple of decent arms for the BP (If Aceves don't make the transition, bring 3 arms.) Priority #4: sign Ortiz if He accepts a decent deal, otherwise give the DH to Youk. Priority #4.1: if Youk takes the DH spot, bring a 3B, but please, don't dare giving Aviles/Lowrie the full time job.(keep them as utility if you want) Priority #5: take Scutaro option if you can't replace him with a better SS (I'd try to go for Reyes) Then... whatever you want to do, is ok for me. The team would look like this: A-God 1B Peddy 2B Youk/FA 3B Scutaro/FA SS CC LF (I'm telling you Carl...) Ells CC Kalish/Reddick RF Papi/Youk DH Salty C Rotation Beckett Lester Buch New SP Aceves Lackey? Get rid or send him to the pen. (unlikely to happen, but who knows) BP Papelbon Bard 1 New Arm 2 New Arm Wheeler Doubront Weiland Now, the 100 Million question: who are the SP, FAs and New BP Arms? My suggestion later, I'm sleepy and very tired, stay tune.