Palodios

Kind of, but not exactly. The Yanks got CC because the Brewers like the idea of having an ace, but they don't like the idea of paying for one. Its insane that they've both traded for, and let go of Greinke, Sabathia, as well as Marcum in recent years.

The painful part about Santana is that he re-tore his shoulder now. After dominating the first half of 2012 and looking like the shoulder issues were behind him, he gave up 33 runs in a matter of 5 starts in July/Aug. I wonder what the timeline of his injuries really was, and whether this could have been prevented with better handling of him.

This is a trap. There is never solid evidence of what offers are on the table, so if I give you examples, you'll call it speculation. There was a report that Dan Haren turned down a better offer from Boston to go to DC. Ross and Beltre reportedly gave up better contracts to be in Boston, so did Victorino. Cliff Lee reportedly gave up 20-30 million to return to the Phillies. Cook and Padilla both said something about turning down better contracts, but who knows the truth of it.

Generally, long term contracts are more dependent on money than short term contracts. We see it all the time-- the big fish go for the big money. However, players on short term contracts are looking for where they are going to have a good year to rebuild value and try for an expensive contract after. In recent years, the Red Sox usually see good RH hitters come in at bargain prices, namely Beltre and Ross. Most of the pitchers the Red Sox were looking at were 1-2 year guys, which is why this is relative. The team sucked last year, there has been tremendous turnover in the coaching staff, the media is incredibly hostile and any mistake you make will be national news. Not to mention the competitive disadvantage of playing against the Yankees, and the tough pitcher's stadiums. Pitchers don't want to come here for a variety of reasons, and losing is definitely on the list.

Not sure what Pedroia has to do with being able to pick up pitchers in free agency. That poll is asking for who is the superlative to "biggest mess in baseball". Even if the Red Sox comes in third, there definitely would be a big incentive for players to avoid signing with them in free agency. Especially pitchers who don't necessarily want to pitch in the AL East to begin with.

I think we generally are on the same page, but the main difference we have is that I have no problem seeing them spend short-term money to make the team better. As I said, I fully understand your concerns about the starting pitching, but I do like to think that this team know their options better than I do. When the Brewers signed Lohse the other day, they mentioned that there were pitchers available that they wanted who didn't want to play for them. There was a poll the other day where 30% of players thought the Red Sox organization was still a complete mess. Maybe the Red Sox saw their options, and knew what kind of shape Lackey was in, and they realize that maybe they couldn't find someone better than him without severely overpaying. The only players I think they sorely missed out on were Haren (available in a low cost trade) and Trevor Bauer, who had only cost one year of Choo.

This team had three options. 1) Do nothing and get steamrolled in 2013. Win 50-60 games all season. Destroy the fanbase. Lose tons of money for the owners. Lose out on a number 1 and 2 picks because the Astros and Marlins are still worse. 2) Pickup stopgap players who would keep the team competitive-- some of which could be used for trades midseason to rebuild for the future. If the team gets very lucky with pitching, it may make the playoffs. 3) Overpay for guys like Greinke and Hamilton, overextending the team's finances years to come, but maybe earning a wildcard playoff spot this year before being bounced in the wildcard round. Other similar options include trading Bogaertz + Bradley + Cecchini for Dickey, Shields, or Johnson. Which one would you chose? I understand that there may have been more attractive pitching options available, but I don't think there would be any guarantees to make the playoffs besides option #3. This team simply lacked the core pieces, and I think that making the team less miserable to watch while they figure it out isn't the worst solution.

Brentz is a top prospect who ended his season last year in AAA. If he hadn't shot himself, he could be in the same shoes as Bradley right now. I don't know what is more hilarious. That we're arguing about which player has made a dumber off-field move, or that you're arguing Sweeney punching the wall goes into the very selective idiot-hat

Ridiculous, its not his fault the guy got beaned.

In all fairness, the hat you are referring to is relatively selective. I don't think breaking your hand in passion over an AB goes into the same hat as say... shooting yourself in the leg while cleaning your gun.

Then you're arguing against a point I didn't make.

I had been talking specifically about April/May earlier-- the Tigers/Angels games aren't until well into June. Besides the Jays, I think you're heavily overestimating the offenses of those teams.

The teams that should scare the pitching staff are mostly in the second half-- the Tigers, Angels, Diamondbacks, the late-season Yankees, and pitching in Coors Field. Besides the Blue Jays, most of their games are against weak offenses, or ones that lost key pieces.

I don't know, my impression is that a fast start could mean the difference between a playoff team, and another year like 2012. This team will get stronger in the middle of the year, and if they're in contention at midseason, I could definitely see them making a move for a front of the rotation starter. The DL will have 4 contributors on it at the beginning of the season who will have an impact once they return. There is also more depth at the minor league level than we've seen in several years. They all need some polish, but many of them have potential to contribute solid value -- Webster, DLR, Brentz, Bradley, Lavarnway, Iglesias and if we're lucky Bogaertz and Kalish.

The problem with new topics is that people often create a thread just for attention's sake, even though there is a very similar one somewhere else. IE, "The Front Office sucks because...".

Its crazy how much people complained about certain deals the Red Sox made this offseason, when if you look at them next to comparable players, they look great. Dempster for 26? Better than Lohse at 33 with a first rounder. Victorino for 39? Better value than Upton and Bourn for insane amounts of money. Gomes for 10? Better than Vernon Wells at 14.

Dojji mentioned him earlier.

Yanks just signed Overbay. Funny, some might say he's the superior player

Just to be clear, can we remove Drew Sutton from this discussion? The guy flat out sucks.

Considering that he was a player that the Pirates didn't want... probably not too much:lol:

I'm probably one of the few people around here who like Nava as much as you do. That being said, if the choice is between Carp and Overbay, I'm not entirely sure Carp is the best choice.

Red Sox release Overbay. How did he do this spring? I figured his numbers against righties made him a better fit than Carp.

Buster Olney reports that the Yankees are getting a 7-8 million dollar settlement for the Texeira injury. Once again, baseball bending over backwards for the Yanks.

Interesting idea Fred. I bet you a dollar that if Bradley lights up April, that we'll hear the comparison from some of the national writers. It seems like every year someone is commenting about not enough AA baseball players.

Does anyone need some extra pop in their lineup? I have four very good 1B, and I'm looking for pitching.