Emmz

Of course, we all know that there's no rational hater out there, so I'm absolutely done right there, just food for thought for some of your people who hate some guy who you don't even know because you don't think he's clutch enough.

@Drew haters: Last I checked, Drew gave us some pretty solid seasons, and this season isn't even half way over. People who've been saying Drew's contract is terrible are idiots who don't understand how productive and underrated he was over the past years of that contract. He has earned every penny of his contract. Some of you should really try and introduce yourselves to sabermetrics some time.

I can't name 10 players who are definitively superior players all-time to Shaq. I can say Jordan is definitely the greatest, but after that it's all pretty close. You've got so much to choose from, but I'd probably put Shaq in my top ten.

Well he was a great defender, and a huge part of why the Celtics have been known for their defense over the past four seasons. I don't know how it would have played out in the playoffs, no one does, it's the playoffs. You can destroy teams during the regular season twice, then get swept by them in the playoffs.

Russell is vastly overrated, really, he is. I know he was an all-time great, known for his defense, etc. However, there's some people, like old Celtics fans, who'll tell you he's the best center of all time. I respect him for what he was, and that's not his shooting abilities, it's that he was THE shutdown defender of his era.

Three superstars, and two of which are elites. I agree that the Heat got the advantage against mostly every team, but Dallas is probably the best bet of all of the teams that made the playoffs to beat them. I think the only team the Heat might have trouble with was the Celtics before they gave Perkins up for some guy who comes of the bench.

I still can't believe he said all these guys were superior to Shaq, even my cousin, who was arguing the same "Shaq can't shoot" thing admitted Shaq is top four. You're pretty much saying Shaq is just some dude who was big and powerful, so he just dunked on people all day. We all know that physical advantages don't mean anything unless you're very talented. He's one of the most efficient scorers in the history of basketball.

WOOOO

This is like the most depressing baseball season I've experienced. I've gone to 4 Twins games, all losses, and the Sox can't stay consistent. I'm going to lose my hair or something.

His two points for Russell: 1. He has championships. 2. Shaq can't shoot. To the first, I've said this every other time people bring up championships into an individuals argument. It's a team accomplishment, even Trent Dilfer won a super bowl, so he's better than Marino or something. To the second, I just remind them how great a shooter Charles Barkley was, Olajuwon, Duncan, Malone, some of the greatest players of all time couldn't make baskets out side of the paint really.

Oh my god, people who say that Shaq was just big should not say Russell was the better player, seriously. Russell was a man among toddlers when he played. Seriously, he was several inches taller, and infinitely more athletic than everyone else back then. It's not as difficult to put up huge numbers when you're 6'10 and athletic, playing clumsy little white guys. They plaid in different eras, it's impossible to properly compare them, but we all know Shaq would have been impossible to stop in the 1960s, even more dominant than Chamberlain. Shaq was a man amongst men, he was just a much, much more powerful man than everyone else. Don't ever say Shaq was just some clumsy fat guy who clogged up the lanes, he was VERY agile for a guy his size, and while he was no-good from anywhere outside of the paint, neither were almost any other great center. That's what centers do, they use their size and strength to overpower their opponents, Shaq was just more overpowering than the others. Why wouldn't you use that to your advantage? It's like blaming Ichiro for using his speed to get hits, and faulting him for it. Totally ridiculous.

Wha?

I really just don't like Heat fans, I've always had respect for the Mavs, so this is good news for me.

Apparently you didn't take the time to read the entire post? :dunno: Anyhow, Halladay doesn't have the wicked nasty stuff that gets you lots of strikeouts. He's a guy who pitches to contact, and he has very good stuff (like I said before), and his best strength is in locating his pitches. Morton does not have the latter at the moment, but Halladay used to suck at locating his pitches too, back when he was trying to overpower hitters. If his stuff was legendary (Which is what I was referring to when I said he doesn't have Clemens, Pedro, RJ, etc. kind of stuff) he would have been able to overpower hitters. There are many pitchers who are more overpowering than Halladay, those guys got better "stuff", they just don't have that pitchers intelligence. Greg Maddux by no means had the most wicked stuff in the league, but he was the best pitcher in baseball for most of the 90s and early 2000s. He was always pinpoint with his accuracy, and he could hit the players weak spots all day. He just knew how to get guys out. Seriously, the guy topped out at 90 mph with his fastball. What do you consider "stuff"? If you include location in the term "stuff" then that changes everything, but I always noticed when the word "stuff" is used, it usually seems to imply a mix of velocity and movement. Example: "[insert Player Here] has some wicked stuff but he could use some work on his location".

The Twins would love to give you their ENTIRE BULLPEN for some form of a SS, so that Plouffe doesn't have to play ever again. Oh wait, their bullpen is worse than Plouffe.

Shaq is probably the best center most of us will ever see. Obviously if you saw Wilt or Kareem, they're legends, but for most of us, those kinds of centers are rare. He wasn't just some clumsy big fat guy, he was always the strongest guy on the court, and he was agile. He even had finesse. He had some pretty good moves in the paint. It's not like he was completely based off of the backdown-dunk strategy, or just running people over, he had good moves. I'm also gonna miss how he talked to the media, funny guy, lovable character as well. Shaq's one of my favorite players ever. Obviously he's not the best shooter, but people don't give him enough credit for how good he is close to the basket.

Halladay isn't exactly known for his excellent "stuff" like Pedro or Clemens or RJ, he's more like Maddux.. Obviously you have to have good "stuff" to be effective, but Halladay just knows how to get into the hitters mind and get them out. His biggest strength is that he's so good at locating his pitches, I don't think Morton's got that yet. That, and Halladay is the prototypical modern workhorse pitcher, which Morton doesn't have at this point either.

Too easy to shoot down a troll like you, the ones who lose arguments then resort to it are the best, but here it goes! 1. You said it clearly, you even said that it's not that much pressure. This means either: a. You're talking out of your ass, which I thought was the likely answer, considering angry white boys who can barely afford to support themselves don't exactly have the qualities of a professional athlete. b. You're an NBA basketball player, that's why this is posed as a question. You don't even know what a straw man is, don't pretend to. 2. Unable to quantify=/=Non-existent, you decided that on your own because you don't have the brainpower to construct a logical argument. NEXT! 3. Good one, highly substantial bro. 4. Never backpedaled, I've been on the same statement for a long time. You don't have the material to force a backpedal. Again, show me some substance to back your claim that I'm backpedaling, then I'll gladly eat humble pie, but since I didn't, I'll just keep troll-burning. 5. I go months without putting up as many logical fallacies as you just did in 3 posts. 95% of my logical fallacies occur when I'm drowsy, drunk, or under other influences. I think you could use some sleep broseph.

This.

1. So you're pretending to know what it's like to play in the NBA? NBA Finals? 2. You've not countered anything I said with substance, you actually spent the entire post going over things I didn't say, like whether or not clutch was quantifiable. 3. I never said that there was a good stat for clutch, I never said it was quantifiable. 4. Clutch isn't something that needs to be proven, it doesn't need to be quantified, it's just a description. I don't think players themselves are clutch actually, I think that there are certain times when players are clutch, some players are clutch more times than others, but I never said it was an attribute. It's definitely there, though. Some players come though in the clutch more times than others. Congrats though, you just covered about 3 or 4 logical fallacies in just a few short sentences.