BSN07

I was talking about when the team made a fundamental change. The purge deal was the first big act and obviously changed the course for the off season and future. Maybe they did explore a deal for Ells? Do you know they didn't? From what I read a lot of teams are weary of Ells being in a walk year, injury history and Boras as an agent. Choo is more durable, so that probably made him more desirable. Your problem is just because you don't hear they are working/discussing something you think they are sitting around the office playing paper football. Just because something doesn't make it to twitter or MLBTR doesn't mean nothing isn't happening or wasn't explored. Your other issue is your expecting the team to solve the problems in a certain way when they have shown they are going about it differently. If you could get past these things you probably would have a different look on the team going forward.

Depends on Ellsubury. if he comes into ST hitting HR's, theoretically they could bat him 3rd and have Victorino lead off. Most likely it will be Ells-Vic-Pedroa- Ortiz as the team stands now(IMO).

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Some of you can't understand what they are doing because they aren't introducing stars at press conferences. They are taking a new approach to building the team and it's left some of the fan base in a state of limbo.

They got prospects in the great purge deal. They have held onto all their top prospects and kept all their draft picks for what is being deemed a deep draft this upcoming year. How is that not a "development approach"?

No I'm saying that's the model they should be leaning towards(seems they are moving more towards that direction). Not the drunken sailor Pre 2008 Yankee approach. I'm hoping for giddy happiness for us all lol That's why I'm willing to step back and see where this seemingly new direction takes the franchise. edit: it appears my "b" button is not working all the time, that might have added some confusion to my post haha

Those are not excuses. Those are factors(factors that were mentioned at the beginning of the off season and all the way through. It's not just popping up now) that you have to consider when building an organization. I think you may e the one avoiding reality if you can't grasp the factors have to e taken into consideration. Look what the Giants have done this off season. Did they go ape s*** crazy and ring in all the big boys to keep the current run going? No. And you can;t argue that teams lineup could have used a Hamilton in it. That would have been the typical sexy post WS win move. But they didn't do it. They have stuck to there overall plan and this is the reason they have won 2 out of the last 3 WS. Who's trying to avoid reality? You and fred see the glass as empty. Some see it as half empty, and some see it as half full. Pretty sure no one around here is touting the team as a WS favorite, ut wel if I missed them then they are they glass full crowd. I fully admit that the team has ? marks that if a certain few or a large number of the smaller one goes south it will be laze of glory epic. But I also except the fact that if a key few big? or many of the smaller one go right then the team will have a chance and will be interesting to watch next season.

So the fact I'm unwilling to not buy or sell the trade after 1 season, I'm a FO ballwasher? Brilliant.. Couldn't be I just have a different way of evaluating talent/moves then someone. I understood the move. Doesn't mean I liked it. For what it's worth this move may very well been one of the last straws so to speak to finally get them to re-evaluate how they were going to shape the roster short and long term. My opinion is the Sox FO/fanbase/media have all been in too much of "win now mode" the last few seasons. Actually to me the Lackey signing was the first sign of it. A lot of us forgot what wins Championships(build talent/core from within and add $ for the last piece that puts you over the top). Instead we wanted sure things so we all "knew" the Sox would be in the playoffs and didn't care what was spent or who they traded to have this "security". Ownership got used to the attention and all the $ it brought in and forgot throwing $ around doesn't typically win. What makes it worse is we watched first hand the Yankees do the same exact thing. Win championships with their own talent, then went bat s*** crazy gathering all the names to feed the fan base and media monster it had created and watched the team fail year after year after year. For the most part it looks like the Sox have shifted course from this to some extent this off season. a700 is probably going to call this absurd and poppycock or something. But the proof is in all the reactions to the Sox off season. The win now fans and media are baffled at what the team is doing while the fans that look more at the development approach generally like how the team is approaching next season and the future.

Bet the players won't mind lol Truth is no one will care the fences were moved in after a couple seasons.

Haha no way, this is way better

Love Fenway too, but would love to see a new Fenway built. Make the old one an MLB Museum of some sort. I don't see it happening though. Not with this ownership group and all the money they dumped into the place. It would have to be something the next ownership group to tackle.

They don't have a fan base. If they do it's extremely small. If they traded Stanton it's going to piss off like 2 people. There will be more fans mad their team didn't get him then there will be Marlins fans upset by the fact he's gone. Fact is they aren't going to build a fan base until they win consistently and or show a willingness to hold on to players long enough for fans to get attached. That probably isn't happening within the next couple years, probably the height of Stantons value with all things considered. As far as price goes all you have to do is look at what Migg was traded fory. Big young hitter that had been producing since 20 years old. Traded at 24-25. It will be top SP prospect, top IF prospects and top OF prospect plus a couple low level players. The equivalent right now for the Sox would be Barnes, Bogaerts and Bradley Jr plus the low level guys.

Salty, unifying talksox posters everywhere lol

Thing is, unless you play or work in the game in some manor it's hard to fathom the work and training it takes to create a consistent ball player/team. I'm a perfect example. I joined this site 7 years ago as your typical fan, loved baseball, played as a kid up through High School, thought I knew the game. Started playing here again and got into coaching a couple years after that. 4 years later, I'm running the baseball program at our club and work with the Junior Netherlands team(21 and under). And my view of baseball and how things should be done when running a quality program probably couldn't be more different then it was when I started. You have to live it to have any chance of really grasping all of it.

If a market develops for him it's possible. He was a good SP for the Marlins the last time he pitched. It's like a SP who missed a season with injury, except he didn't have an injury. Nats are interested on a minor league deal at the moment as well. That would make sense, He could be injury insurance for the rotation and they said they be ok with giving him an opt out date.

I think they hold onto him this season unless they get blown away. And if he's still there next off seaon they will trade him right before he gets set to make millions a year.

I'd be happy with 160 IP of sub 5 ERA ball and no pre or post game interviews. That would be a mega win.

I don't like Javy on anything other then a minor league deal. And that probably won't happen. He needs to join a NL contender. Phillies are looking for a cheap replacement I believe. That makes more sense. We have witnessed not one but two stints that say Javy can't handle the AL East(although the division is a less of a monster then it was his last tour).

That's one organization in the 1970's. Toronto did not have good SP in Farrell's tenure. Romero had one decent year and got over hyped. That and for a stretch there it seemed every SP hit the DL with some major injury. Hard to blame that on Farrell. All I know is Boston's pitching was much better while he was around. You think TB, ATL, Miami, Oakland and SF all teams that produce solid P are all just learning from one another in the BP?

That appears to be the situation at the moment. Hard to say for sure though. I still say pass on him and call Minnesota about Morneau.

Yup. Some guys are good with younger pitchers, some guys are tweakers, some are the masters of overhauling guys and some are good at all of them. Whatever it is, coaches have influence. If they didn't matter, they wouldn't exist.

I think it would be a combo of Farrell coming back and Salty leaving. And pitching coaches do make a difference. The good ones at least. Most of it is on the player, but coaches have the purpose.

He's a cheap switch hitting 5th OF. Could be worse. You could be like LAA and have a 20M 5th OF

I'm leaning towards Farrell having a big effect on the pitchers. Clay was one of the more promising arms and Lester was considered one of the best young LHP in the game before Farrell left. Both have trailed off since Farrell left to get his bumps in Canada. We are just in wait and see mode as it's only January. I think a little more optimism will trickle into the board once the boys head south for ST. This is the rotten in between stage of the off season :thumbdown

Ok was just making sure I hadn't missed it somewhere.

Nava on the 25 man roster out of ST isn't awful. If he's a starting OF it is. But if he's the 5th OF(doubt they will do this, they will send him back to AAA to get AB's everyday) it's not terrible. He's a switch hitter and can play the OF. He's like #25 on the roster, he's not going to be doing much anyways. Everyone should just relax