rician blast

I hate the f***ing Knicks, so I am obviously loving this dysfunction. Isiah Thomas is a tool, Marbury is an idiot, and they deserve each other.

Which is another reason why he WOULD use. With the egos involved, my understanding is that a player often has a lot of difficulty watching other players with less talent garner accolades for their achievements when those achievements are fueled by by PED use. Wasn't it Bonds who someone alleged came into the 2001 season saying he was gonna do the s*** because McGwire and Sosa and others were putting up bigger numbers...but couldn't hold his f***ing jock? So if PED use is as widespread as some would suggest, why would we think ARod would not be influenced...both competetively and egotistically...to use?

Video of the shaving? Thrilling. Got any video of paint drying? grass growing? I'd say those are about equal to the big shave in terms of excitement.

So there you have it. Barry Bonds has been indicted. They've indicted the single season HR champ. They've indicted the career HR champ. Big f***ing deal. Assuming he is guilty, I suppose this is vindication for all of those who've been calling him a cheater, a liar, a scumbag, an *******? Well, some of us suspected a long, long time ago, when his head grew to Cro-magnon proportions and his HR totals skyrocketed, that he was on something. Some of us also have suspected, for just as long, that a full list of PED-users (if one were ever to be assembled), would likely include (names I've suspected or heard others mention) such notables as Nomar, Tejada, Foulke, Posada, Berkman, Andrue Jones, Sosa, Thome, Jeff Kent, Pujols, Bagwell, Sexson, Edmunds, Luis Gonzalez, Palmiero, Sheffield, Justice, Carl Everett, Burnitz, Salmon, Albert Belle, Delgado, Rolen, Clemens, Jaret Wright, Kevin Brown, Helling, ARod, Jeter (my own suspicion) etc. etc. etc. This doesn't even touch on the issue of fringe players who might have used PEDs just to get to the bigs. Or the guys whose HR totals were able to get out of the single digits by using. So sure, there might be some real dirt on Bonds. Why I am unimpressed with the indictment is that (1) we all suspected him in the first place and (2) he's only the main target because of his gaudy numbers and his arrogance. In a way its a shame that the powers that be are inclined to go after Bonds so much harder than anyone else simply because he was already better than just about every other player in the league. Assuming the allegations are correct, would PEDs have enhanced his performance and stats? Sure. But my hunch is he was just doing what 50, 60, 70% of MLB players were doing...he was just f***ing better than them...and thus got better results. Personally I take no joy in any of this...not because I like Bonds...I don't...but simply because I think he's only one of many who shoud wear the cheater label.

Regardless of Ellsbury being, as you put it, the "pride enjoy" and the FO being "prowd" of Buch, no one...I mean no one...is untouchable.

I'd like to see the Yanks committed to him at 42 years old to the tune of $18m.

On WFAN recently there was some talk about Nick Johnson and his unfortunate injuries. Assuming a recovery that makes him marketable again, there has been some speculation he might be moved by the Nats for pitching. JHB, got anything on this guy? He was just starting to hit his stride (in '06 I think, then broke his leg n a collision) and I believe he's a good OBP guy...could he be a 1b candidate for the Sox at the trade deadline or for 2009? Or is what I've heard just total suppositional ********? Any thoughts or has anyone heard anything on him?

Good point regarding the FO intentions over the next year or two. Contrary to a post I saw in this forum recently which stated the Sox goal was to contend every year, I recall (sorry, don't have a link) Theo saying the Sox could NOT contend every year, not if they were to reach/operate within organizational goals/constraints...which clearly includes the long-term financial consequences of any personnel moves. He indicated they've looked at the organization and its goals, top to bottom, and determined they could go for it approx. 7 out of every 10 years...which means re-tooling every once in a while. The question would be does 2008 loom as a re-tooling year? I would say no, this team as presently constituted, the 3b situation notwithstanding, is poised for another run and its quite possible that the pitching staff can be even better than last year. They go for it again in 2008.

Holy crap, he really said that? Kind of funny, but Phil, use your fkn head before speaking.

I saw that and understand what you're saying...so likely the $350m price just to talk was a chip they played to get that $65m hike...and from the Yanks perspective, they would never have gone $350m, but probably were rsigned to the fact that ultimately it would take something on the order of the $270m that is being talked about now.

Cheaper than the $350m price Boras/ARod through out there a week or two ago just to talk, no? Maybe the Yanks just saved themselves $80m? On another note, assuming he will end up in pinstripes inevitably, I'd love to see the Sox, Angels, Dodgers get in on the act and drive his price up, then bail, leaving the Yanks with a $320m, 10 yr commitment on their hands...then see ARod busted for HGH or something.

You left out the beginning and end... The beginning? My hunch is the Yanks "leaked" to ARod that they'd entertain the idea of him coming back. The end? The Yanks FO says "just so we understand each other...we don't want to eat crow, so YOU have to take the hit as the party who approached us, not the other way around"

This is actually very humorous on both sides of the situation. On one hand you have the Steinbrenners who stated that if ARod opted out they would have no negotiations with him and even said that he apparently did not want to be a Yankee and they therefore do not want him. Then you have Borass and ARod supposedly saying that it would take $350m just for the Yankees to talk to them, ARod opting out and the alleged contact by "a number of interested teams." Not sure if this was all just business all along, or if there's some damage control being done, some miscalculations being repaired or what. But its comical. As a Sox fan, I don't like the idea of him coming back to NYY, he is so good that eventually I think he'll hurt the Sox. Funny...I was steadfast against him coming to Boston...then when the aRod to the NYY thing picks up speed? The emoiton changes a bit.

$$$$$$$$$$$...that's why.

Right, there's no shame in not winning the award....after all, Clemens has won the Cy a record number of times right? We know what kind of post-season "warrior" he is. Beckett's WS Ring > CC's Cy, IMO...I'm guessing Beckett would agree.

Congrats on your, ahem, consolation prize, CC.

Not sure if this has come up, but...Wasn't Theo on hiatus when this deal took place? I think this was a Lucchino/Lajoie brokered deal. I know most of the focus has been on the trade itself, but as far as assigning credit/blame, perhaps its not appropriate to give Theo any :thumbsup: or :thumbdown regarding this trade.

If "ifs and buts were candy and nuts...." You've made some very good points and have attempted to support them with some interesting analysis. There are many, many other ways the Sox FO could have gone. Perhaps they still would have won it...perhaps not. Because the Sox have deep resources, they're better able to absorb the impact of trades they may have "lost" (based on certain statistical analysis). These resources will help the Red Sox to recover from trading Hanley, I am sure. The "very realistic scenario" presented above is likely one of many realistic scenarios, but if that, or some other scenario, were to have occurred, the stats wouldn't guarantee a successful result, they'd only help predict the likelihood of those results. If you measure the trade based on fact, not supposition, projection, hypotheticals, etc. you can conclude that the Ramirez trade did not stand in the way of the Red Sox winning the 2007 WS...that much is clear. Beyond that we can all present our own arguments, support them with what ever analysis is deemed appropriate and at best develop our own opinion of the trade...and that's the neat part of this...there are a myriad of ways to look at the trade and so long as we're at least willing to read and consider opposing views, it makes for good conversation. The "trade-off" (no pun intended) of winning now versus potentially giving greater long-term value away is (1) a "trade-off that paid-off" (at least in the near term) and (2) was apparently acceptable to the Sox ownership group (cuz IMO Theo does not act autonomously). The above being said, I'm of the opinion that the trade absolutely was a win-win and that the potential for over-analysis is great here.

Let me be a little more clear here. I'm sure much of the analysis being presented here is the same type of analysis that is being done in FO's across MLB. What I think is missing from the analysis is the issue of, for lack of a better term, "sacrifice"...acceptance that you may be giving up greater value...based on some critieria...in the future for what gives you a better chance to win now or soon. While you'll not often hear a FO acknowledge that they may be giving up greater future talent for a shot to win now, that is exactly what happens in reality. So I guess my point is that the Sox FO may very well do similar analysis to what I've seen in this thread and ultimately determine that the trade works out better, in later years, for the Marlins based upon certain criteria. Yet the bottom line is that the Red Sox accomplished exactly what they set out to accomplish by winning the '07 WS and still having their ace pitcher in the fold. That being said, I'd "sacrifice" the value that included Hanley et al in exchange for those acquired players who were absolutely integral to the 2007 WS title any day. It's not even close. One other thought...if some MLB sabermetrician approached the Sox FO and showed them an analysis that indicated the Marlins likely got the best of the trade I'm guessing the Sox FO would chuckle and tell him to get lost...as they polish their WS rings.

Have your boyfriend do it himself, after all he's the one who just plowed yer arse.

Solid campaign all the way through. The above assumes that ONLY the injury played into the slight dip in his numbers...could there not have been other factors at play?

Some of the analysis here is very interesting and really makes you see things differently than you might otherwise. For example, one could be lured into being extremely pleased, perhaps ecstatic in some cases, that the Red Sox won the WS this year, with Beckett perhaps being THE post-season player of the year in MLB...as opposed to understanding that in the long run, based on stats, salaries, terms of contracts, players ages, etc. the Marlins may have somehow come out better in the trade. Lucky for us we're being brought back down to earth.