a700hitter

The Red Sox did make a run at Halladay and at the trading deadline the Sox were practically in a dead heat with the Yankees. The FO must have thought that Halladay could have helped them win the division.

Rosenthal claims that inside the Red Sox FO there is the sentiment that the Sox cannot field a good young team until 2012. Rosenthal is usually full of baloney, but if he is right about this, I hope the accent is on "young" and not "good". http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/10363914/Plenty-of-tough-choices-ahead-for-Epstein,-BoSox

So, you see no possibility that Halladay could have helped improve the Red Sox 2009 season?

...and Halladay could have changed a lot of that. When we rolled out the number 5 guy in the second half, it was like raising the white flag. We rolled out a steady diet of garbage in that spot.

I don't hate you for it. Everyone here trolls an issue once in awhile. Your trolling was apparently unwitting. No biggie.

Sure you did. Who the hell was talking about Halladay and the trading deadline until you brought him up. The discussion was about Wakefield. You've got to take accountability for that.

WIth a healthy Beckett, Halladay and Lester lined up, you don't give us a shot. You do remember that the Sox won the first 8 meetings this season... right?

I know. I just hate when the topic of a thread gets derailed by a trolling comment.

...and the attack machine of TalkSox kicks into gear with ORS and Destroyah joining in to take cheap shots over an issue that VA trolled. I was discussing Wakefield's limited utility as a starter for 2010 and beyond, but rather than debate that point feel free to take shots at me over an issue (Halladay) that has been over since the end of July. A bunch of maroons.

You are right. He clearly would not have helped the team at all in the second half. He probably could have won 3 games against the Yankees in the second half. Two that spring to mind were the Smoltz and Penny debacles. The Sox scored enough runs in those games to win. Change the outcome in three of those games aqnd it's a different race. Maybe we would've faced the Twins instead of the Angels.

Did I say who I was upset at? I was upset that we didn't get him.

Why are you getting nasty VA? I love Timmay, but it's time to cut bait with him. Branch Rickey used to say that it was better to trade a player one year too soon than to wait 1 year too long. Wakefield is 43 years old and he looked like an old warhorse out there at the end of the season. Recovering from back surgery at 43 to pitch effectively in the majors is tough enough. Added to that, he has had a torn labrum in his shoulder that has gone unrepaired for the last 2 years. Also, his durability has been waning over the last several years. This has nothing to do with liking the player. What's up with the Halladay remark? You wouldn't like to see him in the Red Sox rotation?

If they were willing to adjust their offer upward which they had indicated in the press, then the methodology was flawed. If you take them at their word that they would have moved the original offer up, that means that they had established that he was still a value at a higher price. The fact that they didn't get to communicate that to Damon and potentially retain him was bad methodology. The Monday Morning QBing shows that the value placed on him by the Yankees was too high, but it doesn't verify that the Red Sox properly valued him, because they never got to give him a final offer. The Yankees, with their take-it-or-leave-it approach probably saved the Red Sox from over-valuing him. If they gave him time to go back to the Sox, they would have upped the ante, and using 20-20 hindsight that would have been the wrong decision. You can't give the Sox credit because another team precluded them from making a mistake. Their right decision was merely fortuitous and not the result of good business acumen. Sometimes it's better to be lucky than to be good. The same could be said of the Jose Contreras debacle. The Yankees snatched him from under our noses. He ended up stinking, but that doesn't mean the Red Sox exercised good business judgment. They were looking to give him a hefty contract. The Yankees superior networking and negotiating saved the red Sox from a terrible waste of resources. Both teams had Contreras valued wrong. The Yankees executed their plan better. Contrearas stinking doesn't make the Red Sox the better organization, because they did a bad job of executing an ill-conceived plan for a player that they drastically over-valued.

I think you underestimate the clout that the Red Sox organization has. The Sox are much closer to the Yankees stature than the Royals or Marlins are to the Red Sox. I didn't say that the technique would work for everyone. In fact, my post addressed only the Yankees use of the technique, not the Red Sox and certainly not the Royals or Marlins. I discussed how the Yankees have been effectively employing this technique to keep the cost from spiraling too wildly upward. I do think that the Red Sox could effectively use this technique at times. You mention Teixeira as an example, but apparently from the information out there, the Red Sox were willing to go higher, but walked away before giving the final offer. What they did really was really confounding to me. (I realize that a lot of what is in the press has been distorted along the way, so it's hard to know the true facts). The Sox made an offer. Tex countered. Sox walked away and declared negotiations over in the press. Yet, in stories that came out later, they were willing to increase their offer. If you are going to employ the tactic of making the best and final offer that has to be accepted on the spot, then make the final offer. Don't expect that you will be able to get back to the table with the new offer. Competing with the Yankees for players is challenging, and overall, the FO does a good job. Good negotiation skills and techniques can help close the gap. I think at times they are penny wise and pound foolish. They'll miss out on a good player like Abreu because they wanted the Phillies to eat $2 or 3 million more than the Phillies wanted to, but then they throw $39 million at a useless dog like Lugo and they misjudge the market for Dice K by paying more than 25% more than any other team was willing to bid. The FO is a smart bunch. I think they are good at assessing and learning from there mistakes. While some of us give them a free pass when they screw up, I think they are quite a bit more self critical.

:lol:We have to do something to cope with this horrendous circumstance, especially since we have a big hill to climb. I'm not confident that we will be able to land the pieces we need to compete. They are certainly not available on the FA market.

I recognize that, but losing a guy as important as Teixeira to the Yankees for less money as Example has posted, leaves me shaking my head. That shouldn't happen. When you have the opportunity to close the deal before the Yanks enter the picture, you shouldn't walk away without making your final offer, because you will probably not get another chance.

Over his career he has sucked against the Yankees. He is also a forfeit in post season starts. It's time to move him to the TV Booth.

I always mean what I say, unless I am clearly being sarcastic or joking. You are assuming that my criticism of the FO handling of the Teixeira or the Abreu negotiations is a condemnation of the FO. It is not. People like to see things in black and white. You like to view me as anti-FO. That is far from the truth. While I will criticize them, I have said over and over again that IMO this FO is doing a very good job overall. They do a lot of things very well. However, I don't think they do very well in some negotiations. Maybe they need to bring someone in to join the FO team with a different skill set-- a negotiator. This FO knows its business and they make very sound decisions, but IMO they have had their lunch eaten by the Yankees a couple of times. That's my opinion. That being said, I am serious that I don't think the FO will make decisions based on public opinion. I think Boras is smart enough to know that. I also think that angering the Red Sox brass by lying is not the best way to deal with them, regardless of whether the Sox need a left fielder. I just don't see how stating a known lie would be in Boras' interest. That's why I believe his statement.

He had a better year. It was not just that his errors were down, and you are correct that the decrease in errors was attributable to Teixeira. Jeter also was getting to more balls up the middle.

So, if the Yankees outbid us, ... not the FO's fault, and if we outbid the Yankees but the player signs with the Yankees, ... not the FO's fault. So much for accountability.

The Red Sox should stop pursuing players that don't fit into their plans. Sounds like a big waste of everyones time.