a700hitter

I'm not sure what point you are making here. Are you saying that the FA acquisitions brought in payment streams that better FA acquisitions would not have brought in?

I have a question about evaluating Theo's legacy. It seems that we will have to wait 2 -3 years to see how his last classes of draftees work out. Should we take into consideration the prospect that we get for Theo when determining his legacy?

Theo's Big Ticket FA Acquistions (i.e. anything over $10 million): Lackey Crawford Drew Dice K Lugo Cameron Jenks Renteria Clement Foulke Am I missing anyone? Do we really need to research WAR on these guys. It's a damning list.

That's a strong word that he has been using-- one that we here at TalkSox reserve for Yankee fans, but only on rare occasions.

Soxsport, you are right. The stories about the poor conditioning came out in August before the collapse. Youk and AGon were identified as guys who could benefit from losing 20-25 lbs. Our pitchers start breathing heavily after 4 innings. The team was not prepared for a full season.

If you mess up on a $5 million signing like Smoltz and Penny, it doesn't devastate a team's finances. They are low cost moves with a low probability of success. If you hit on one of those occasionally it's great, but the probability of hitting on one of those is low. When you pay the money for a big ticket luxury car, you don't expect it to perform like a yugo. The big ticket guy may not completely justify his salary, but he shouldn't perform at Darnell McDonald levels. Theo purchased too many yugos for Masserati money. The last straw was Lackey, who was the worst starting pitcher in Sox history. Historically, our GM's have only had to pay the minimum salary to get a pitcher who was not nearly as bad as Lackey.

But for the stench of the collapse, Beckett's trade value would have been very high. I definitely would have considered moving him in the off season if the Sox signed CJ Wilson to replace him. However, to much of the stench of this collapse is getting on Beckett decreasing his trade value, because attempts to trade him would be looked upon as an attempt to unload a problem. I'd keep him. He came to camp in 2011 in better condition. They need to stay on top of his conditioning during the season. Beckett is not the problem for this team. With regard to the beer drinking incident, all I have to say is that I am shocked. (Sarcasm). Major league baseball players drinking beer in the clubhouse? (More sarcasm). It reminds me of when I went to the parents' orientation when my son went to college. One of the mothers was very upset because she had spotted beer in the refrigerator of one of the dorm rooms on the tour. She demanded to know how the drinking laws were enforced. As this idiot prattled on about the beer violations, I leaned over to my wife and said: "should I tell her about the drugs and the sex?". LoL! Let's impose restrictions on beer in the clubhouse!!!! LOL!

Scutaro should have been batting 5th in September when he wasn't batting 2nd. Reddick, MacDonald, Lowrie and Lavarnway were not good options to bat after Ortiz or AGon.

I think you are pretty close to being completely right about how the Press operates in Boston and their cozy relationship with the owners. I do think that each time there is a some new tidbit that is leaked after the fact that sparks the press into their all too natural feeding frenzy mode that they hold in check while the guy is part of the organization.

Like I said, I'm not a dictator. I was just posting my thoughts about the matter. I'll sit out discussing his legacy for a couple of years. As for Cherrington, I don't see him as getting any honeymoon or grace period from ownership. He'll be expected to get the organization back on track and winning next season. If he doesn't, Brian Cashman will be available, and the owners know that Cashman knows how to do the job.

By now you know that I don't need others to agree with me. Being right is enough.

It takes at least 2 to debate or beat a dead horse, and when debating against me it takes a minimum of two posters debating against me just to make it fair. So, I don't know why you are singling me out.:dunno:

Luckily for you that I am a self-appointed ceremonial monarch and not a dictator.

Theo is history. I'm not sure why we are debating his record. We owe him a debt of gratitude. He did a lot of great things and he never shirked accountability. Good luck to him. Now, we need to move on.

No, it wasn't. My initial argument was about responsibility and accountability. As for getting rid of him, I felt that the time was right to make a change, and they should let him him walk to the Cubs. It was convenient way for the Sox to implement their own personnel strategy. There's no reason to shoot someone when they'll voluntarily remove themselves. My argument was never premised on any active purging. They didn't want him any more. He probably told the owners what the Cubs were offering, and asked what the Red Sox had planned for him. They told him that they could not promise that he would ever get to that level with the Sox and they did not attempt to offer him anything additional to stay. Everyone left the room understanding that the Sox didn't want him to stay. The Sox owners made the choice for him. You are in serious denial if you think they wanted to move forward with Theo as their GM.

If the Cubs interest hadn't been there, he might not have been fired at this time. I believe that if had stayed, he would have been on very thin ice. However, the Cubs situation was the perfect excuse for ownership to change direction without dirtying its hands. If they thought he was the key to the franchise's future, the owners would have sweetened the pot and convinced him to stay.

You have slipped back into denial. As for the Cashman analogy, if the Yankees miss the playoffs 3 out of 6 seasons and collapse like the Sox did in September, he too will be gone. That hasn't happened to the Yankees. They win the division almost every season and they go to the playoffs every year. In Theo's tenure the Sox won the division once--the same number of times that Duquette won the division. Over Theo's 9 years, the Rays also won the division once. Believe what you want to believe. The real facts probably won't come out for years if ever. They create the public reality and release it to the press. Do you really think that someone will breach those confidences in the not too distant future? Not likely. Theo and the FO have probably inked a confidentiality agreement as well as a non-compete agreement. The FO doesn't want Theo poaching other key FO personnel. We told you that Theo was responsible, and that he would likely be gone, and he is. All the reasons why really don't matter. If he was their guy, they would have matched the Cubs offer. The Sox made the determination that they didn't want to match the offer. Believe whatever you want to believe about the circumstances of his exit, but to keep posting that you have seen no evidence that the Sox wanted him gone is making you look a little foolish and out of touch with reality.

Why would any of us have regrets? We didn't fire him or let him go. If it turns out bad, we blame the owners. It's the good thing about being a fan. Everyone, the players, the manager, the FO and the owners are ultimately accountable to us.